Hi all,

Just wondering how many of you use HUDs. Is it possible to be competitive without one?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by bigrog70

Hi all,

Just wondering how many of you use HUDs. Is it possible to be competitive without one?

Thanks.

I don't use a HUD, and I'm very competitive.

Yes, but you have to be very attentive to the table because the hud helps a lot

HUD does not work in some rooms already

Originally Posted by jordanbillie

I don't use a HUD, and I'm very competitive.

Good to know. So, I'm guessing you would not consider HUDs an unfair advantage?

Originally Posted by Iryna Stryzheuskaya

HUD does not work in some rooms already

The "already" is kinda interesting as HUDs have been around for a long time. At least 15 years? Does anyone consider them an unfair advantage? I'm surprised some rooms ban them while others don't.

Originally Posted by bigrog70

Good to know. So, I'm guessing you would not consider HUDs an unfair advantage?

Definitely not. Most people don't realize that by using a HUD, they become predictable. Let them use HUDs, I'll still do just fine.

A big part of my (winning) strategy is taking advantage of players who play too many tables at once.

Yes its possible to win without using a HUD, at least in soft games. But if used properly a HUD will always give you a higher winrate, because it allows you to adjust better to individual opponents. So not using one, when its allowed, is certainly going to cost you money in the long run.

Lets say you are playing an MTT, and you open AJo from UTG+1. A player to your left, who was moved to the table just two hands ago, 3-bets. Because you have no reads on him, you have to fold, since this is the default line. However if you are using a HUD, it might show you, that you have played 56 hands with this guy before, and he has been playing 63% of his hands (VPIP) and raising preflop with 43% (PFR).

Of course we dont know for sure, if he is still playing like this, but chances are high, that this guy is still totally out of line, so we are not going to fold AJo to his 3-bet. If the effective stack is 34BB, then we probably just shove and let him decide what to do with his whatever. If its 89BB, we call and let him continue to hang himself on boards, where we hit.

Or lets say you have a slightly better hand like AQs. Then you would have to call the 3-bet, because that is the default line against a well balanced player. But this time the HUD show, that your opponent is a nit. You have played 1.589 hands with him, and over this big sample his stats are VPIP 16 / PFR 13 / 3-bet 2.

Again we dont know for sure, but with stats like these chances are very high, he has either AK, QQ, KK or AA. So we can just fold our AQs and save ourselfes from getting involved in a sticky spot, where usually we just end up being "coolered" by a better hand.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Yes its possible to win without using a HUD, at least in soft games. But if used properly a HUD will always give you a higher winrate, because it allows you to adjust better to individual opponents. So not using one, when its allowed, is certainly going to cost you money in the long run.

The qualifying term here is "if used properly." I believe that the majority of people using HUDs do not know how to use them properly. They let the HUD do the playing for them, turning them into a predictable/exploitable robot. It's an advanced tool that is useless or harmful if the foundations of winning poker are not understood.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Yes its possible to win without using a HUD, at least in soft games. But if used properly a HUD will always give you a higher winrate, because it allows you to adjust better to individual opponents. So not using one, when its allowed, is certainly going to cost you money in the long run.

Lets say you are playing an MTT, and you open AJo from UTG+1. A player to your left, who was moved to the table just two hands ago, 3-bets. Because you have no reads on him, you have to fold, since this is the default line. However if you are using a HUD, it might show you, that you have played 56 hands with this guy before, and he has been playing 63% of his hands (VPIP) and raising preflop with 43% (PFR).

Of course we dont know for sure, if he is still playing like this, but chances are high, that this guy is still totally out of line, so we are not going to fold AJo to his 3-bet. If the effective stack is 34BB, then we probably just shove and let him decide what to do with his whatever. If its 89BB, we call and let him continue to hang himself on boards, where we hit.

Or lets say you have a slightly better hand like AQs. Then you would have to call the 3-bet, because that is the default line against a well balanced player. But this time the HUD show, that your opponent is a nit. You have played 1.589 hands with him, and over this big sample his stats are VPIP 16 / PFR 13 / 3-bet 2.

Again we dont know for sure, but with stats like these chances are very high, he has either AK, QQ, KK or AA. So we can just fold our AQs and save ourselfes from getting involved in a sticky spot, where usually we just end up being "coolered" by a better hand.

Thanks for the concrete examples. Is there an HUD that you use or would recommend? Um, are there free ones? Probably not?

Just like with anything in life in order to get good at something you need study and practice.

Having and using a HUD does not magically improve your game. It is a tool that if used effectively will aid in study and practice.

Practice as you will be able to effectively play more games at once and play more hands. The more we do something the better we become at it, the less difficult it would seem to us. By effectively I mean you will have all the information from all games that you would have like if you played and concentrated on one game at a time only.

The greatest benefit of a HUD is for review of your own play. Easy to explain the edge a HUD player has over a non HUD player example:
If you play a mtt and play 300 hands how many of those hands can you remember the next day? Most likely 5-10 and you will struggle to remember the cards and situations exactly for even those 5-10 hands.

So the player with the HUD will have all 300 hands with exact actions and can thoroughly review them for areas they can improve. While the player without the HUD might have 10 hands to review from memory.

So to answer your question directly maybe you can be competitive without a HUD. However, how ever good you think you are a HUD will improve your game.

Originally Posted by bigrog70

Hi all,
Just wondering how many of you use HUDs. Is it possible to be competitive without one?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by jordanbillie

The qualifying term here is "if used properly." I believe that the majority of people using HUDs do not know how to use them properly. They let the HUD do the playing for them, turning them into a predictable/exploitable robot. It's an advanced tool that is useless or harmful if the foundations of winning poker are not understood.

I agree that many people using HUDs are not doing so effectively and it actually might be detrimental at times if they are attempting to process information incorrectly (due to either not enough experience or a lack of knowledge & skill).
Not sure what type of HUD you are referring to but if it's PT4 or HEM then the part I've bolded here in your statement is incorrect. These tracking HUDS (PT4 & HEM which is the ones that most players who are using HUDs will be using and are the ones allowed on some of the sites) don't tell you when to bet/fold/call/3B/4B etc. It never 'plays for them'.
Extracting information via one's HUD stats. is going to give the player information that they can then choose to use to make adjustment vs. their opponent. This actually helps them to potentally see the predictability of their opponent AND helps them to exploit their opponent. (not the other way around as you've suggested).

I'm also wondering, how you come up with your response..... how do you know who is actually using a HUD? and who is using it incorrectly? or is using it and making themselves play predictably?

Answer for the OP.... you don't need a HUD to be a winning player. I've played a couple million hands on an older laptop that lagged too much if I used a HUD so I just didn't bother to use one.

Also, as mentioned already... some sites don't allow the use of a HUD. Actually two of the biggest online sites today don't allow them (GGPoker & Partypoker... where the WPT & WSOP are being played right now!). Is it affecting the 'good' players? idk... I still see some of the top regulars crushing the tourneys on there today so I'm thinking they don't need them (also, fwiw, many of the online high stakes tourney players don't use them).

I've never used HUD's. I use my head. I gain information and I keep it in mind. I am always competitive and I don't see why I need to use HUD's

No hud,,,,and i do just fine.

IMHO answer is very simple to that
HUD is a tool, and tool is good if it used properly and in proper situations
Every maestro has his own way of creating an art, but generally speaking you need common tools to learn how to do it

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

I agree that many people using HUDs are not doing so effectively and it actually might be detrimental at times if they are attempting to process information incorrectly (due to either not enough experience or a lack of knowledge & skill).
Not sure what type of HUD you are referring to but if it's PT4 or HEM then the part I've bolded here in your statement is incorrect. These tracking HUDS (PT4 & HEM which is the ones that most players who are using HUDs will be using and are the ones allowed on some of the sites) don't tell you when to bet/fold/call/3B/4B etc. It never 'plays for them'.
Extracting information via one's HUD stats. is going to give the player information that they can then choose to use to make adjustment vs. their opponent. This actually helps them to potentally see the predictability of their opponent AND helps them to exploit their opponent. (not the other way around as you've suggested).

I'm also wondering, how you come up with your response..... how do you know who is actually using a HUD? and who is using it incorrectly? or is using it and making themselves play predictably?

Answer for the OP.... you don't need a HUD to be a winning player. I've played a couple million hands on an older laptop that lagged too much if I used a HUD so I just didn't bother to use one.

Also, as mentioned already... some sites don't allow the use of a HUD. Actually two of the biggest online sites today don't allow them (GGPoker & Partypoker... where the WPT & WSOP are being played right now!). Is it affecting the 'good' players? idk... I still see some of the top regulars crushing the tourneys on there today so I'm thinking they don't need them (also, fwiw, many of the online high stakes tourney players don't use them).

I had a response to this typed up and I was 99% sure I posted it. I don't know why it would have been deleted, but maybe it was? Or maybe I just forgot to post it.

Either way, I now forget completely what I wrote...and I'm supposed to be working right now. So...yeah! Talk to you later! Hahahaha

The homepage was down yesterday for a few hours, and some of my posts also seem to have been lost in that process.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

The homepage was down yesterday for a few hours, and some of my posts also seem to have been lost in that process.

Makes sense, thanks!

HUD is needed. it's inconvenient when your opponent knows everything about your behavior at the table, but you don't.

Originally Posted by zwbb

HUD is needed. it's inconvenient when your opponent knows everything about your behavior at the table, but you don't.

Thanks, zwbb. Which one do you use?

Originally Posted by jordanbillie

I had a response to this typed up and I was 99% sure I posted it. I don't know why it would have been deleted, but maybe it was? Or maybe I just forgot to post it.

Either way, I now forget completely what I wrote...and I'm supposed to be working right now. So...yeah! Talk to you later! Hahahaha

Originally Posted by Mahdi

IMHO answer is very simple to that
HUD is a tool, and tool is good if it used properly and in proper situations
Every maestro has his own way of creating an art, but generally speaking you need common tools to learn how to do it

Thanks for your thoughts, both of you. Jordan, I AM still curious about your thoughts about potentially becoming predictable if you use an HUD. Just a couple of sentences, if you still remember what they are. Thx .

I play at small non-hud site and realized they are much softer than sites that allows hud. If you are using hud, you have to remember there are also players who use huds against you as well. Hud is great for mass multi-tabling, and for those who are aiming to become high stake professionals, but you definitely can make descent money without hud.

You can be competitive but not multi-tabling, I think HUD is necessary to multi-tabling

Originally Posted by bigrog70

Thanks for your thoughts, both of you. Jordan, I AM still curious about your thoughts about potentially becoming predictable if you use an HUD. Just a couple of sentences, if you still remember what they are. Thx .

HUDs seem to guide HUD User's consciousness toward classifying the "type" of player they are facing. Based mostly on vpip/rpre/aggr, which are 3 statistics gathered from the hand histories, HUD User's are making these classifications. These classifications will then guide the "proper" action or line to take against said opponent (i.e. He's playing 45/40 so I should 3 bet to steal more often pre...). Often, these very "conclusions" can make your own play extremely predictable. It's almost like a new dynamic of what I refer to as "levels." When we learn to play poker we all learn at level one (how strong is my hand in relation to the possible hands given the board texture). Then we progress to level two (how strong is my hand relative to the possible holdings of my opponent). Then level three (how strong is what I am representing to my opponent in relation to what they are holding). These levels can continue ad infinitum, the only limit is the experience of the players at the table. This leveling effect also applies to HUD usage. If you are someone who uses a HUD on level one, which is simply altering your line to better match against your opponents playing "style", you are susceptible to players who are on a higher level than you are. From my experience, a lot of HUD users are only level one type players who always take the same line because it is "optimal" and are extremely vulnerable and easy to extract value from. One other point I'd like to make is the potential error in categorizing a player based on a small hand history. Also, we forget that poker is an emotional game, one in which the control of emotions is critical for long term success. With this being said, players will play hands totally different depending on their emotional state at the time. I think the reliance on the data from HUDs often turns off the intuitive sense of "reading your opponent."

That's probably enough for a good discussion.

Thanks!

Jordan

Originally Posted by jordanbillie

HUDs seem to guide HUD User's consciousness toward classifying the "type" of player they are facing. Based mostly on vpip/rpre/aggr, which are 3 statistics gathered from the hand histories, HUD User's are making these classifications. These classifications will then guide the "proper" action or line to take against said opponent (i.e. He's playing 45/40 so I should 3 bet to steal more often pre...). Often, these very "conclusions" can make your own play extremely predictable. It's almost like a new dynamic of what I refer to as "levels." When we learn to play poker we all learn at level one (how strong is my hand in relation to the possible hands given the board texture). Then we progress to level two (how strong is my hand relative to the possible holdings of my opponent). Then level three (how strong is what I am representing to my opponent in relation to what they are holding). These levels can continue ad infinitum, the only limit is the experience of the players at the table. This leveling effect also applies to HUD usage. If you are someone who uses a HUD on level one, which is simply altering your line to better match against your opponents playing "style", you are susceptible to players who are on a higher level than you are. From my experience, a lot of HUD users are only level one type players who always take the same line because it is "optimal" and are extremely vulnerable and easy to extract value from. One other point I'd like to make is the potential error in categorizing a player based on a small hand history. Also, we forget that poker is an emotional game, one in which the control of emotions is critical for long term success. With this being said, players will play hands totally different depending on their emotional state at the time. I think the reliance on the data from HUDs often turns off the intuitive sense of "reading your opponent."

That's probably enough for a good discussion.

Thanks!

Jordan

Lots of speculation, since you dont even know, which of your opponents are actually using a HUD

HUD's can be over rated too. While its great if you can get a general feel of a player they can be a crutch that will cost you. Recently someone question my play and my hyper LAG play and 4 bet shoved with a smaller pair. Yes I had played about 60% of the hands he had seen as well. The problem is I was at the table for about 15 hands. What he also failed to notice was the hands I showed down with. Not just but actual good hands but he never seemed to notice that part. Just my raising so much that day. Yes I called and took it down with a top 4 hand. Also some stats are not useful until you have enough hands VS a player. Cbet percentage is a good one. Yes you may have seen him for 500 hands but how many time did he have the chance to cbet? I personally dont use a HUD most of the time but like the taking of the hands I play for review later. Also not taking is a great help. Without a HUD I can see and pick up things other may miss. I am also less likely to be distracted this way. It will also be much more helpful when you play live poker.

I don’t use them and don’t like them. I think they ruin the game. I don’t think recreational sites should allow them, at least at the low stakes. I’m competitive, take notes on as many players as possible and study the game. That’s what it should be about. Not who can afford the best software.

Originally Posted by BatOneHat

I’m competitive, take notes on as many players as possible and study the game. That’s what it should be about. Not who can afford the best software.

That is a very idealistic attitude, but it is also very far from the reality of poker anno 2020. Software exist, and the way good players "study the game" today is by using the software. And of the available software trackers are actually among the cheapest, you can get your hands on. Even the best program on the market, PT4, is only 79$ for a life time license, if you go for NLH low stakes, which cover the need of most people.

For comparison a bacis subscription to ICMizer is 99$ per year + VAT, and a program like PokerSnowie is the same. And then there are paid training sites, coaches etc. There is just no way around the fact, that people, who are able and willing to invest money in training, will get better at poker than those, who dont. Of course assuming similar talent, intelligence etc.

I think it depends cause if u had HUDs but you don't really know how to interpretae the your probably worst that without one, but also it is very need it when you're are multitable cause it is just imposible to pay atention to every player on 4 plus tables I play without HUDs I rather to stay aware and looking players even when I'm not in the hand thats why I never play more than 2 or 3 tables

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Lots of speculation, since you dont even know, which of your opponents are actually using a HUD

You are right, but to me it doesn't matter. While I'm playing, I'm not thinking about whether a certain player is using a HUD. That is why I would consider this a theoretical thread, because I'm not analyzing these thoughts "on the fly." I'm simply pointing out the pitfalls of being HUD reliant, and of HUDing before one is ready to HUD. I HUDed for a while, which then freed me from the HUD. I didn't even realize I was a slave to the HUD until I was freed from the HUD.

Make sense?

I know that many of the players I face use HUDs (CC freerolls). For that reason, I purposely play two different games in these MTTs. At the early stages, I like to call and limp because it keeps my VPIP higher and PFR and 3bet lower. In the later stages of a game, HUD users will take my PFR and 3bet more seriously. An early tourney 3bet means I have JJ+ or AK. Around the bubble and FT I may 3bet with QTs.

I think HUDs are needed in cash games to make a better profit. In SnGs and MTTs, they are useful but not needed.

Originally Posted by thehangdude

I know that many of the players I face use HUDs (CC freerolls). For that reason, I purposely play two different games in these MTTs. At the early stages, I like to call and limp because it keeps my VPIP higher and PFR and 3bet lower. In the later stages of a game, HUD users will take my PFR and 3bet more seriously. An early tourney 3bet means I have JJ+ or AK. Around the bubble and FT I may 3bet with QTs.

I think HUDs are needed in cash games to make a better profit. In SnGs and MTTs, they are useful but not needed.

Now that's some level 2 HUDing!

I do well without a HUD

I am idealistic and don’t even get me started on rebuys.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

That is a very idealistic attitude, but it is also very far from the reality of poker anno 2020. Software exist, and the way good players "study the game" today is by using the software. And of the available software trackers are actually among the cheapest, you can get your hands on. Even the best program on the market, PT4, is only 79$ for a life time license, if you go for NLH low stakes, which cover the need of most people.

For comparison a bacis subscription to ICMizer is 99$ per year + VAT, and a program like PokerSnowie is the same. And then there are paid training sites, coaches etc. There is just no way around the fact, that people, who are able and willing to invest money in training, will get better at poker than those, who dont. Of course assuming similar talent, intelligence etc.

Originally Posted by BatOneHat

I'm an idealist and don't even make me start buying back.

I still haven't managed to adapt to the HUD, or maybe I haven't found the best and easiest to read, so I trust the notes I make from the table. (Note: you have to pay attention to what is happening at the table.)

Originally Posted by jordanbillie

You are right, but to me it doesn't matter. While I'm playing, I'm not thinking about whether a certain player is using a HUD. That is why I would consider this a theoretical thread, because I'm not analyzing these thoughts "on the fly." I'm simply pointing out the pitfalls of being HUD reliant, and of HUDing before one is ready to HUD. I HUDed for a while, which then freed me from the HUD. I didn't even realize I was a slave to the HUD until I was freed from the HUD.

Make sense?

If you feel, you play better without a HUD, then luckily nobody force you to use one. I dont think, I would play better without a HUD. In fact I am pretty sure, I would play worse. I also dont think, it makes me a worse player, that I can benefit from using a HUD.

To me there is a lot of almost religious feelings is this question, and its a debate, which has been going on forever, much like the debate about "rigged poker sites". Whatever arguments are presented for the opposite, some people will always continue to believe, the sites must all be rigged

The typical argument against HUDs is, that its better to pay attention to, what your opponents are doing. But first of all having a HUD running does not mean, you lose your ability to pay attention to, what is going on around you. You can and should still notice things like for instance bet sizes, which are not being picked up by the HUD. Or understand final table dynamics in an MTT.

And second if you base adjustments to individual opponents on manual observations, then you are almost per definition relying on a very small sample like 20-30 hands, which lead to more danger of overadjusting, that if you have a larger sample stored in your tracker.

Yes maybe someone is "changing gears" and playing different this session, but its probably more likely, they are just running hot or cold over that very small sample. So being 3-bet 2-3 times by the same player is not always a good reason to start "figthing back" with a very light 4-bet.

And its the same problem with note taking. Maybe you take a note like "called down 3 bets with bottom pair", but you dont know, if he did this, because he was on tilt that day. So when you look at that note 4 month later, it might totally mislead you into thinking, you can go for three streets of value with second pair, because "this player is a calling station".

Whereas if you are using a HUD, and you have a large sample, you might see, that the player has pretty normal stats for numbers like went to showdown and won at showdown. And this is probably more important than, what you saw him do in one particular hand 4 month ago.

Originally Posted by jordanbillie

The qualifying term here is "if used properly." I believe that the majority of people using HUDs do not know how to use them properly. They let the HUD do the playing for them, turning them into a predictable/exploitable robot. It's an advanced tool that is useless or harmful if the foundations of winning poker are not understood.

I agree with you, I know this by myself I used it only once and successfully lost my bankroll following the prompts)) It may be effective in the long run when you play enough hands.)

Originally Posted by jordanbillie

The qualifying term here is "if used properly." I believe that the majority of people using HUDs do not know how to use them properly. They let the HUD do the playing for them, turning them into a predictable/exploitable robot. It's an advanced tool that is useless or harmful if the foundations of winning poker are not understood.

I dont know, what "the majority of people" are doing, but it is true, that a HUD is an advanced tool, and that you need to have a strong foundation to succesfully use it. But denying HUDs for this reason is a bit like saying, that you wont drive a car, because accidents can happen, if people drive without training / license and while drunk.

HUDs are all about adjusting to individual opponents, and to be able to successfully adjust, we always need to know our default strategy, which we would use against an unknown. Its a branch of the whole GTO / exploitative debate, and to play good exploitative poker you need to have at least some understanding of GTO, because this is the point, you are adjusting from.

And for sure there are some pitfalls in HUD-data, which you need to be aware off. For instance if someone is sitting out in a tournament, then your HUD will registrate that as a preflop fold every hand. So even if the HUD end up showing VPIP 2 / PFR 1, this does not mean, they have aces or kings, if they return to the table and play a hand

Another example could be very old hands, if you have played on a site for years, or very short stacked tournament hands. But you can set filters in the HUD to clean up that kind of data, that might be more misleading than usefull.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

I dont know, what "the majority of people" are doing, but it is true, that a HUD is an advanced tool, and that you need to have a strong foundation to succesfully use it. But denying HUDs for this reason is a bit like saying, that you wont drive a car, because accidents can happen, if people drive without training / license and while drunk.

HUDs are all about adjusting to individual opponents, and to be able to successfully adjust, we always need to know our default strategy, which we would use against an unknown. Its a branch of the whole GTO / exploitative debate, and to play good exploitative poker you need to have at least some understanding of GTO, because this is the point, you are adjusting from.

And for sure there are some pitfalls in HUD-data, which you need to be aware off. For instance if someone is sitting out in a tournament, then your HUD will registrate that as a preflop fold every hand. So even if the HUD end up showing VPIP 2 / PFR 1, this does not mean, they have aces or kings, if they return to the table and play a hand

Another example could be very old hands, if you have played on a site for years, or very short stacked tournament hands. But you can set filters in the HUD to clean up that kind of data, that might be more misleading than usefull.

A HUD is like a fast sports car, not ANY car.

Yes, of course it is possible to be competitive ... the HUD is a tool that allows you to know the statistics of your opponents but does not make decisions ... the decisions are made by yourself ... so success will depend on your skills ... .. and I'll just give you an example ... Lex Valdhuz is a pokerstar pro ... I have seen many streamers of this player ... and I will tell you that he plays at the highest levels and is constantly winning prizes ... and listen to this: "Lex doesn't use HUD"

I think it is very possible to be competitive without a HUD. I'm not saying that HUDs don't have the potential to be incredibly useful. Of course they can collect and store more data than a person could possibly remember or manually record. But I also believe that if a player is focused and paying attention, they can recognize another player's patterns and tendencies without a HUD. Of course keeping track the information you pick up on might require some note taking.

I guess Huds for weak players pro players after 10 rounds will just put label and you will be assigned to fish)

I wouldn't say HUDs are only for weak players. A weak player probably wouldn't really know how to properly take advantage of all the information a HUD makes available to them. At the same time, I tend to pay close attention at the table. I don't multi-table. I try to minimize distractions when I'm playing. I may not be able to give exact numbers or percentages, but I know when the player in seat 3 is limping into a high number of pots. I know when another player has a tendency open wide and almost always continue after the flop. I'm aware of when a player is playing no fold'em hold'em, or as some might put it, is a calling station. Maybe I can't say exactly how many hands I've played against a particular player. My sample size might simply be a whole lot, because I play against this guy all the time. I might not have exact figures for a player's vpip or pfr rate, but I have a very good idea of whether it's about average, a little high, very high, or low without a HUD, from having fooled around with HUDs in the past. I'm not saying a HUD can't be a useful tool. The question was whether someone can be a successful player without one. I believe that answer is yes.

Originally Posted by IntenseHeat

I'm not saying a HUD can't be a useful tool. The question was whether someone can be a successful player without one. I believe that answer is yes.

I totally agree, but I also think, its kind of an irrelevant question. A PT4 license cost 79$, which is an insignificant amount for anyone playing for profit, it does not harm your health, and its not illegal to use on the sites, where its working. This mean, the only reason to not use PT4 would be, that you think, it makes you play worse.

I received a message from Pokerstars that Holdem Manager cannot be used, HUD is also there. Otherwise, you will be blocked, well, I don’t use it, I’m afraid that they will.

Originally Posted by tata777rus

I received a message from Pokerstars that Holdem Manager cannot be used, HUD is also there.

This is probably related to the update in Stars third party software policy, which happened last year. Among other things the functionality of HUDs was limited, so you can also not use older versions of PT4, which has not incorporated these limitations. I am a little surpriced, if Holdem Manager has not done the same and made a version, that can legally be used on Stars, since it is still the largest online site, which allow HUDs. So it seems like a very large market for them to miss out on.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

This is probably related to the update in Stars third party software policy, which happened last year. Among other things the functionality of HUDs was limited, so you can also not use older versions of PT4, which has not incorporated these limitations. I am a little surpriced, if Holdem Manager has not done the same and made a version, that can legally be used on Stars, since it is still the largest online site, which allow HUDs. So it seems like a very large market for them to miss out on.

Hey. I really have the previous version of hold'em manager. But, I still will not use it, suddenly it will block poker stars

It's absolutely possible to compete without one (live players do it every day). I play on Global Poker where they are banned. It may be an unpopular opinion but I think online poker would be in a healthier place if all sites would ban huds. I mean...imagine having to take your own notes and not having software do all the heavy lifting for you. You always have the option to play less tables at a higher buy-in.

Possible yes, taking notes and being aware of whats going on at the table is not that hard really when you get used to it.

Sure it possible, many pro playing without hud, but you need to pay more attention.

Originally Posted by joeisi

Just like with anything in life in order to get good at something you need study and practice.

Having and using a HUD does not magically improve your game. It is a tool that if used effectively will aid in study and practice.

Practice as you will be able to effectively play more games at once and play more hands. The more we do something the better we become at it, the less difficult it would seem to us. By effectively I mean you will have all the information from all games that you would have like if you played and concentrated on one game at a time only.

The greatest benefit of a HUD is for review of your own play. Easy to explain the edge a HUD player has over a non HUD player example:
If you play a mtt and play 300 hands how many of those hands can you remember the next day? Most likely 5-10 and you will struggle to remember the cards and situations exactly for even those 5-10 hands.

So the player with the HUD will have all 300 hands with exact actions and can thoroughly review them for areas they can improve. While the player without the HUD might have 10 hands to review from memory.

So to answer your question directly maybe you can be competitive without a HUD. However, how ever good you think you are a HUD will improve your game.

Yes this, so true! It doesn't win for you, but it will give you insight into your own game that will probably make you want to do research into the areas where you lack for sure. Like most sports/games, you have a strength and weakness profile...this will point them out over an extended amount of time.