Are HUDs and Tracking Software dying?

Viper ChipIt

Viper ChipIt

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Huds are worth it if your playing 12+ tables but if your playing like 6 generally you can keep up with the action and track the players roughly yourself. I personally dont use one unless i decide to play alot of tables.
 
WiredKs

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I think the ship has sailed on this one. You end up being the horse-and-buggy salesmen complaining about the automobile. You can't undo it at this point.


There are enough HUD-free sites for those players that feel like HUD is advantage play.


I see both sides though. If your opponent has a HUD and you don't it can feel a little bit like playing with no pants on.
 
terryk

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I think the ship has sailed on this one. You end up being the horse-and-buggy salesmen complaining about the automobile. You can't undo it at this point.


There are enough HUD-free sites for those players that feel like HUD is advantage play.


I see both sides though. If your opponent has a HUD and you don't it can feel a little bit like playing with no pants on.
I thought i felt a breeze! :reddy:
 
John A

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I think the ship has sailed on this one. You end up being the horse-and-buggy salesmen complaining about the automobile. You can't undo it at this point.


There are enough HUD-free sites for those players that feel like HUD is advantage play.


I see both sides though. If your opponent has a HUD and you don't it can feel a little bit like playing with no pants on.

Good comment.

I just gave an interview where I was asked this very question... this was my response:

Question 7: Some poker players and even new sites are against the use of software like DriveHUD, they say it gives unfair advantages to the players. What do you think about those comments?

It does give an unfair advantage. It gives an unfair advantage the same way that if you were playing tennis against someone, and your opponent spent the time to get their racket strung properly before the match, had the best tennis shoes on, had their rackets gripped properly and spent time analyzing and studying their game on film.

The advantage in any game and in life in general, is going to go to the person who does their due diligence, puts in the work, and gives their best effort. It’s always been a silly argument to me that people want to say HUDs are somehow unfair. It’s a tool, and an amazing tool that every poker player should have, and I’m not saying that just because I sell one. J It’s honestly the way I improved the most as a poker player, which was tracking my results, running filters, reviewing my hands in re-players, exporting and posting them on poker forums. But it's a tool. It's not going to magically make you a better poker player, just like having the best tennis racket isn't going to make you the best tennis player.

online poker is NOT live poker. Anyone who is trying to make online poker live poker is just selling you a gimmick. The sites that want to ban huds to have the appearance of being fairer are doing themselves a disservice because it will just push the software into the black market where good mid and high stakes players will pay a lot of money to have custom developed personal HUDs that no one else will have access to. You can’t stop HUDs on any site. It’s not possible. Sites like pokerstars did the intelligent thing, which was regulating the use of HUDs. That’s the more reasonable position, but people generally tend to sway from one extreme to another extreme in a lot of areas of life. Common sense regulation is the better way to approach things so that all groups’ needs are met and satisfied and you eliminate creating unfair advantages for small groups that can afford to pay extreme amounts of money.
 
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C

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It’s honestly the way I improved the most as a poker player, which was tracking my results, running filters, reviewing my hands in re-players, exporting and posting them on poker forums


I'm just breaking into the use of software and I can't help but believe that with a truly dedicated approach, to the least, ones game will improve by just performing those steps within software
 
D

Daithi

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Man i really hope at all this cheating software is banned and we can start playing poker again.

I am going to make a case here for the support of tracking software. I will be drawing from my (horrible) experience on Party Poker.


Let's look at some stats.
Flopping a Set is round 7.5:1 (1 out of 8.5 flops). Or 36% making a Flush by the River when holding 2 suited cards and a board that has 2 cards of same suit.

My most recent session on Party Poker. I saw 29 flops with a pocket and hit no Set. This has never happened to me in history of playing poker anywhere. The same session I chased 5 Flush draws from Flop to River and none of them came. We are expecting to hit 1 of 3 here. The same session I had 2 Pair crushed by another 2 pair (one of them had an Ace as top, the other K as top). Same session, two of my AA were crushed and I lost 2 buyins on both; 1 crushed by 66 calling a 4bet and flopping a set while I didn't get one in 29 flops, and the other were crushed by KK.

This session had 1,178 hands. Equal to 13 hours play of single table game or 39 hours of Live play (which could be10 sessions). Of course I multi-tabled this, but I am using this example to demonstrate how devastating this would be for a single tabler or Live player.

Needless to say that I got absolutely robbed that session. I lost almost 6x buyins. This was a decisive moment for me, I've decided to quit Party Poker. It's just not worth it even with their rakeback (besides their cap is massive anyway) when you just cannot win there. I don't say this lightly. Of course you cannot judge by session. Although as demonstrated above "this session" could be weeks for a Live player. If I was new to Party Poker, I would say bad run and carried on. But I am not new to PP. I have been grinding there for over 9 months and it's just consistently bad. Not long ago (about 2 months ago) I was complaining that 4 of 5 preflop all-in AA got crushed heads-up when it should be the other way around. It is consistent on Party Poker that you are always behind as a favourite (not enough flushes, sets, etc). And when you make your big hands the aggressive regs involved constantly miraculously get out of your way and won't pay you off. Of course sometimes you get your due but small in proportion what you lose. But when the shoe is on the other foot and they have sets you always get like 2 pair or something very strong. When you have a set no action. But interestingly in battles for blinds between BTN and BB they are willing to call half or even more buyins with bluff catchers. But I digress...

Tracking software gives you the power to check all these very important stats about the poker site. We need to have this power to keep them in check. But tracking software restrictions have already begun! Party Poker already anonymizes hand histories. Meaning that I can only collect session stats on a player, as players are anonymized as Player #1, #2, #3, etc. I can no longer have aggregates. I'm sure you think it's great! But now I, we, cannot see players' Win at Showdown in the long run. Why is this important? This is a huge deal!! Say if you are a decent winning player your W$SH is something small over 50%. But you need massive hand volumes for this stat to be accurate, much much more than sessions stats. This stat could provide insight about certain "Regs" on pokersites; that is, if there are any anomalies.

I personally believe, my own conspiracy theory, that there are employees (kind of like a high tier department) or bots playing on Party Poker extracting value. But we cannot prove it because we no longer have the required hand histories needed for statistics. Introducing this feature, they literally have Carte Blanche and can do what ever they want. On the surface they can make it appear fair by having the basic stats in order (even that's questionable with PP at this point), but it is action that determines the sizes of the pot and winrates.

By the way, Party Poker's own rating system rates me as a Solid Gold Winning Player on over 70K hands and I haven't won anything there.

Full hand histories should be our absolute right as players from online poker rooms as we do not see dealers and player associations. We need this to keep them honest. But right now it is going in the opposite direction. In fact many rooms do not even provide hand histories, which is an absolute disgrace and unacceptable! I will never, ever play on a poker site that does not provide complete hand histories again. I don't trust them.

But to be fair, regarding HUDs I understand the concern by recros and HUD non-users. I would even be able to accept that HUDs not to be allowed during play. But I should have full hand histories and HUDs after session for study.

It is funny and ironic, that players are so concerned with the use of HUDs and that it gives edge to players. Meanwhile they are absolutely oblivious to the fact that they are being robbed of hand histories in the process which is way bigger issue than the use of HUDs.
 
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ScooperNova

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I am going to make a case here for the support of tracking software. I will be drawing from my (horrible) experience on Party Poker.


Let's look at some stats.
Flopping a Set is round 7.5:1 (1 out of 8.5 flops). Or 36% making a Flush by the River when holding 2 suited cards and a board that has 2 cards of same suit.

My most recent session on Party Poker. I saw 29 flops with a pocket and hit no Set. This has never happened to me in history of playing poker anywhere. The same session I chased 5 Flush draws from Flop to River and none of them came. We are expecting to hit 1 of 3 here. The same session I had 2 Pair crushed by another 2 pair (one of them had an Ace as top, the other K as top). Same session, two of my AA were crushed and I lost 2 buyins on both; 1 crushed by 66 calling a 4bet and flopping a set while I didn't get one in 29 flops, and the other were crushed by KK.

This session had 1,178 hands. Equal to 13 hours play of single table game or 39 hours of Live play (which could be10 sessions). Of course I multi-tabled this, but I am using this example to demonstrate how devastating this would be for a single tabler or Live player.

Needless to say that I got absolutely robbed that session. I lost almost 6x buyins. This was a decisive moment for me, I've decided to quit Party Poker. It's just not worth it even with their rakeback (besides their cap is massive anyway) when you just cannot win there. I don't say this lightly. Of course you cannot judge by session. Although as demonstrated above "this session" could be weeks for a Live player. If I was new to Party Poker, I would say bad run and carried on. But I am not new to PP. I have been grinding there for over 9 months and it's just consistently bad. Not long ago (about 2 months ago) I was complaining that 4 of 5 preflop all-in AA got crushed heads-up when it should be the other way around. It is consistent on Party Poker that you are always behind as a favourite (not enough flushes, sets, etc). And when you make your big hands the aggressive regs involved constantly miraculously get out of your way and won't pay you off. Of course sometimes you get your due but small in proportion what you lose. But when the shoe is on the other foot and they have sets you always get like 2 pair or something very strong. When you have a set no action. But interestingly in battles for blinds between BTN and BB they are willing to call half or even more buyins with bluff catchers. But I digress...

Tracking software gives you the power to check all these very important stats about the poker site. We need to have this power to keep them in check. But tracking software restrictions have already begun! Party Poker already anonymizes hand histories. Meaning that I can only collect session stats on a player, as players are anonymized as Player #1, #2, #3, etc. I can no longer have aggregates. I'm sure you think it's great! But now I, we, cannot see players' Win at Showdown in the long run. Why is this important? This is a huge deal!! Say if you are a decent winning player your W$SH is something small over 50%. But you need massive hand volumes for this stat to be accurate, much much more than sessions stats. This stat could provide insight about certain "Regs" on pokersites; that is, if there are any anomalies.

I personally believe, my own conspiracy theory, that there are employees (kind of like a high tier department) or bots playing on Party Poker extracting value. But we cannot prove it because we no longer have the required hand histories needed for statistics. Introducing this feature, they literally have Carte Blanche and can do what ever they want. On the surface they can make it appear fair by having the basic stats in order (even that's questionable with PP at this point), but it is action that determines the sizes of the pot and winrates.

By the way, Party Poker's own rating system rates me as a Solid Gold Winning Player on over 70K hands and I haven't won anything there.

Full hand histories should be our absolute right as players from online poker rooms as we do not see dealers and player associations. We need this to keep them honest. But right now it is going in the opposite direction. In fact many rooms do not even provide hand histories, which is an absolute disgrace and unacceptable! I will never, ever play on a poker site that does not provide complete hand histories again. I don't trust them.

But to be fair, regarding HUDs I understand the concern by recros and HUD non-users. I would even be able to accept that HUDs not to be allowed during play. But I should have full hand histories and HUDs after session for study.

It is funny and ironic, that players are so concerned with the use of HUDs and that it gives edge to players. Meanwhile they are absolutely oblivious to the fact that they are being robbed of hand histories in the process which is way bigger issue than the use of HUDs.
.
Hand histories on many sites have been available for over a decade and no one has ever been able to use the information in any meaningful way in regards to showing any inconsistencies.
 
D

Daithi

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Hand histories on many sites have been available for over a decade and no one has ever been able to use the information in any meaningful way in regards to showing any inconsistencies.


One thing about the online poker game that can’t be replicated live
[FONT=droid_sansregular]
is the ability to access a full history of hands being played.[/FONT]

All sites had them available for players to download, and thanks to the introduction of training tools like Poker Tracker, the players in question at Absolute Poker were able to be reviewed by other players in the community.
https://www.gamblingsites.com/history/absolute-poker/
Online poker pros consist of an independent group of online poker aficionados from all around the world who have utilized tracking software to identify any signs of rigged sites
https://www.cardschat.com/online-poker-safe-or-rigged.php#anchor-block-2
Look out for the following:
- Groups of players with almost identical HUD stats.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.888poker.com/magazine/strategy/top-6-ways-spot-poker-cheater%3famp
Most of the cheating was going on in Tournaments, I think. I am coming from the position of cash game. Where I grind against the same players day by day. Where in a month we could play over 10k hands.
 
Karneiro

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I agree!

Man i really hope at all this cheating software is banned and we can start playing poker again.

By studying and practicing, we will get the expertise to stay competitive!
 
jmateuspoker

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I do not think is dying but the enthusiasm diminishes the solutions presented
We had a lot of supply and in fact the tool is usual for those who grinda many screens but even poker online with few tables do not see with the use of software solution to improve the game not more important than playing poker correctly and technical

:jd4:mateuspoker
 
T

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I won 6 months of a hud and it was great. If you pay careful attention, and use the hud, there is a distinct advantage. If you rely solely on the hud, it can be misleading. Players are shifting gears constantly, according to the situation. It helps, and grinders will always look for any edge, that's the smart play.
 
Haze777s

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Almost everywhere banned , Starzach is that it works
 
F

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Not exactly dying here 2½ years after the original post. Trackers including HUDs are still allowed on several poker sites including PokerStars, which is still the industry leader. partypoker made a big publicity stunt out of banning HUDs a few years ago but have gained no market share as a result. GG Poker, which is emerging as the main competitor for PokerStars globally, dont allow third party trackers, but they have their own build in HUD.
 
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