R
RequinBd
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Tx H'em, "starting fr scratch" (Ferguson Challenge): Different opinion on how to...
In an earlier post, Wolfie wrote the text appended below.
I appreciate the effort he put into writing it, but disagree on the important matter of how to make it to first cash, and then, I have something to add to "what to do with the first hard earned buck".
As background, I am a serious brick-and-mortar player that is blessed with other strong income, so give away serious cash poker winnings (and so avoid having to register them with the tax man). I have also successfully played play freechip-to-microstakes transitions as a part of periodic Ferguson Challenges taken with friends -- converting 0$ to 100$ without buys. I have been successful with this, at the former FTP and at Carbon, under various names.
Points:
(1) The near-to-pure gambling approach that my esteemed opponent urges as the way to go from Step 1 to 2 to 3 at Carbon, I disagree with entirely.
As I see it, his approach ruins the chance for any good poker at freechip/microstakes levels of play, and more than that, develops absolutely awful real-play habits and intuitions on the part of the player using the approach. While his method works for non-serious, and skill-less players, it does not equip any player for success at Step 3 and beyond, and certainly not for a multi-table tournament setting. **Bad practice makes bad players.**
So I do not shove anything near-playable, in an attempt to early double at Steps 1 and 2. Instead, I wait for all the dumb luck play to cease, and then chip away at the lucky early chip leaders, with solid position and hand selection decisions. In this way, in latest Ferguson Challenge go-round, I won Step 1s two-thirds or more of times entered, Step 2s more than half the time, and converted Step 3s for $7 (all in very little relative play time).
Granted, it is harder to play this way, but (i) it is the best use of our very valuable leisure time, see closing, and (ii) the discipline and skill developed through good play are transferrable to any other poker venue. The "shove with anything pointy or with a face" style of a play transfers to no other serious poker venue. Good, serious SnG play is always tight early, when the opponents are new and being scoped, ones table cred is being established, etc.
(2) Then, a buck is made, I think the best venue after the Steps, at Carbon, is the 11c SnG. Bad play abounds at the microstakes limit tables. And while the 11c is also overpopulated with players using the pure dumb luck approach, any solid player can easily and regularly cash. (Last go-round, even with all the flying shyte chips, I won the payout at 2x buyin more that half the times entering (so always in the black), and then frequently won with payout at 4x buyin. Hence one can easily, this way, stay "in the black" at time of move from freechip to microstakes.
From there... I recommend slowly moving up the SnGs, and adding the other venues that Wolfie suggests. I personally allow 10% bank to go "on the block" for higher buy-in SnG's as bank increases, but if hit a bad patch, always refresh the bank to 100% bank before going back to the higher stakes. (Chris F's guideline is 5%, and I respect that as well, but allow for the one-time 10% risks, emphasis on the one-time, rebuilding as indicated.)
Bottom lines from this -- early in poker bank-building, though stakes are low, the learning and discipline developed are crucial, and so play that would classically be considered donk or stupid or premature (suited to headsup not new table) is ill-advised; bad practice makes bad players. And freechip and microstakes are not free, or cheap. We live once, and our leisure time is limited -- would any of us easily take on the extra overtime hour if we had to regularly skip a kid's important ball game? (That time-and-a-half metric is what we should view our leisure hour as being worth.)
Finally, what do I mean by good vs. bad play? See the SnG teaching videos at ESPN, the Chris Froehlich video at FTP Academy, and Chris F's and others' videos also at FTP Acad, on hand selection, betting, etc. (where the FTP videos are all up at YouTube).
Cheers. Discuss away. [ Requin ]
starting from scratch at merge (carbon-aced)
with so many new cc-players on carbon and other merge skins i want to give some
tips at how to get a bankroll without depositing there.
tips are based on my own experience, because me and a group of friends had a
bet on who could get the biggest bankroll at carbon in 3 months without making
a deposit.
whe used a new skin where 1 of us was affiliated to be sure there where no
deposits made
1) how to get your first cash !
the fastest way to get cash are the so called funsteps, you can get 10 step-1
tickets for 250 playmoney a day at the admin !
top 3 in these 10 man sng get a step-2 ticket
in step-2 top 2 get a step-3 ticket and no 3 a step 2 ticket
in step-3 winner gets $1 no-2 a step-3 and no-3 a step-2
play very aggressifif in step-1 you just need a doubbleup to be almost
certain to get in top-3, so push with any 2 facecards, suited aces and pairs !
seen loads of 4-5 man allins on first hand
you do good if get at least 5 step-2 tickets from it.
in step 2 still must play aggressif but for push use top 5 starterhands like
ak-aq-aj-a10-kq medium/high pp and high suited connectors.
keep in mind that want the top 2 but place 3 gives a new shot at step-2.
doing good if get 2 or 3 step 3 tickets.
in step-3 play tight aggressif you want to win this one !
second is ok for another shot and third is no to bad !
The second way to get free cash are the $200 freerolls that run about every
few hours, they cost a lot of time and just a few places get you cash or a
tournament ticket, i played these loose aggressif in the first hours so its was
mosttly death or glore early did not wanted to waste to much time there.
2) Got your first cash so what now ?
made your first $1 what to do next ?
i suggest to play limit ring games at lowest level with a minimum buyin to try
to get 10 cents profit so you can play the $1 double or nothing sng that are
fairly easy to cash in.
second option is to play the 6 cent MTT, quarter quickly or the fast
fifty freezeout MTT.
i did a fast fifty and a quarter quickly with my first $1 for 90 cents total,
leaving me with 10 cents so i could play the $1 double or nothing sng with
my second funstep dollar i would get
3) got your first $10 so what now ?
this depens on what you like more or are better in !
i kept playing funsteps, played like a real donk in the $200 freerolls(death or glory)
i chose to play mostly $1 double or nothing sng and the fast fifthy freezeout as
main source to build my bankroll !
besides those i played low level bounty sng and mtt ! why those ?
bounty sng top 3 pays out and every kill is 50% of investment back !
i played these tight agressif and made nice profit in those.
the bounty mtt i played also tight aggressif was just needing 2 kills to get my
investment back mostly made 4+ kills and cashed in a few for a steady growt.
hope to have given some usefull tipsfor all those trying to build a bankroll from
scratch and wish your luck if trying to do so. [Wolfie]
In an earlier post, Wolfie wrote the text appended below.
I appreciate the effort he put into writing it, but disagree on the important matter of how to make it to first cash, and then, I have something to add to "what to do with the first hard earned buck".
As background, I am a serious brick-and-mortar player that is blessed with other strong income, so give away serious cash poker winnings (and so avoid having to register them with the tax man). I have also successfully played play freechip-to-microstakes transitions as a part of periodic Ferguson Challenges taken with friends -- converting 0$ to 100$ without buys. I have been successful with this, at the former FTP and at Carbon, under various names.
Points:
(1) The near-to-pure gambling approach that my esteemed opponent urges as the way to go from Step 1 to 2 to 3 at Carbon, I disagree with entirely.
As I see it, his approach ruins the chance for any good poker at freechip/microstakes levels of play, and more than that, develops absolutely awful real-play habits and intuitions on the part of the player using the approach. While his method works for non-serious, and skill-less players, it does not equip any player for success at Step 3 and beyond, and certainly not for a multi-table tournament setting. **Bad practice makes bad players.**
So I do not shove anything near-playable, in an attempt to early double at Steps 1 and 2. Instead, I wait for all the dumb luck play to cease, and then chip away at the lucky early chip leaders, with solid position and hand selection decisions. In this way, in latest Ferguson Challenge go-round, I won Step 1s two-thirds or more of times entered, Step 2s more than half the time, and converted Step 3s for $7 (all in very little relative play time).
Granted, it is harder to play this way, but (i) it is the best use of our very valuable leisure time, see closing, and (ii) the discipline and skill developed through good play are transferrable to any other poker venue. The "shove with anything pointy or with a face" style of a play transfers to no other serious poker venue. Good, serious SnG play is always tight early, when the opponents are new and being scoped, ones table cred is being established, etc.
(2) Then, a buck is made, I think the best venue after the Steps, at Carbon, is the 11c SnG. Bad play abounds at the microstakes limit tables. And while the 11c is also overpopulated with players using the pure dumb luck approach, any solid player can easily and regularly cash. (Last go-round, even with all the flying shyte chips, I won the payout at 2x buyin more that half the times entering (so always in the black), and then frequently won with payout at 4x buyin. Hence one can easily, this way, stay "in the black" at time of move from freechip to microstakes.
From there... I recommend slowly moving up the SnGs, and adding the other venues that Wolfie suggests. I personally allow 10% bank to go "on the block" for higher buy-in SnG's as bank increases, but if hit a bad patch, always refresh the bank to 100% bank before going back to the higher stakes. (Chris F's guideline is 5%, and I respect that as well, but allow for the one-time 10% risks, emphasis on the one-time, rebuilding as indicated.)
Bottom lines from this -- early in poker bank-building, though stakes are low, the learning and discipline developed are crucial, and so play that would classically be considered donk or stupid or premature (suited to headsup not new table) is ill-advised; bad practice makes bad players. And freechip and microstakes are not free, or cheap. We live once, and our leisure time is limited -- would any of us easily take on the extra overtime hour if we had to regularly skip a kid's important ball game? (That time-and-a-half metric is what we should view our leisure hour as being worth.)
Finally, what do I mean by good vs. bad play? See the SnG teaching videos at ESPN, the Chris Froehlich video at FTP Academy, and Chris F's and others' videos also at FTP Acad, on hand selection, betting, etc. (where the FTP videos are all up at YouTube).
Cheers. Discuss away. [ Requin ]
starting from scratch at merge (carbon-aced)
with so many new cc-players on carbon and other merge skins i want to give some
tips at how to get a bankroll without depositing there.
tips are based on my own experience, because me and a group of friends had a
bet on who could get the biggest bankroll at carbon in 3 months without making
a deposit.
whe used a new skin where 1 of us was affiliated to be sure there where no
deposits made
1) how to get your first cash !
the fastest way to get cash are the so called funsteps, you can get 10 step-1
tickets for 250 playmoney a day at the admin !
top 3 in these 10 man sng get a step-2 ticket
in step-2 top 2 get a step-3 ticket and no 3 a step 2 ticket
in step-3 winner gets $1 no-2 a step-3 and no-3 a step-2
play very aggressifif in step-1 you just need a doubbleup to be almost
certain to get in top-3, so push with any 2 facecards, suited aces and pairs !
seen loads of 4-5 man allins on first hand
you do good if get at least 5 step-2 tickets from it.
in step 2 still must play aggressif but for push use top 5 starterhands like
ak-aq-aj-a10-kq medium/high pp and high suited connectors.
keep in mind that want the top 2 but place 3 gives a new shot at step-2.
doing good if get 2 or 3 step 3 tickets.
in step-3 play tight aggressif you want to win this one !
second is ok for another shot and third is no to bad !
The second way to get free cash are the $200 freerolls that run about every
few hours, they cost a lot of time and just a few places get you cash or a
tournament ticket, i played these loose aggressif in the first hours so its was
mosttly death or glore early did not wanted to waste to much time there.
2) Got your first cash so what now ?
made your first $1 what to do next ?
i suggest to play limit ring games at lowest level with a minimum buyin to try
to get 10 cents profit so you can play the $1 double or nothing sng that are
fairly easy to cash in.
second option is to play the 6 cent MTT, quarter quickly or the fast
fifty freezeout MTT.
i did a fast fifty and a quarter quickly with my first $1 for 90 cents total,
leaving me with 10 cents so i could play the $1 double or nothing sng with
my second funstep dollar i would get
3) got your first $10 so what now ?
this depens on what you like more or are better in !
i kept playing funsteps, played like a real donk in the $200 freerolls(death or glory)
i chose to play mostly $1 double or nothing sng and the fast fifthy freezeout as
main source to build my bankroll !
besides those i played low level bounty sng and mtt ! why those ?
bounty sng top 3 pays out and every kill is 50% of investment back !
i played these tight agressif and made nice profit in those.
the bounty mtt i played also tight aggressif was just needing 2 kills to get my
investment back mostly made 4+ kills and cashed in a few for a steady growt.
hope to have given some usefull tipsfor all those trying to build a bankroll from
scratch and wish your luck if trying to do so. [Wolfie]