Sponsorship question.

titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Total posts
1,238
I have a bar that wants to sponsor me in about 8 poker tournaments which are all local, no travel needed. The buy-ins range from $100 to $400.

He pays all entry fees, I get to keep 10% of earnings. I will get 25% if I finish first in any event. I just wear a t-shirt of his during the events.

If I do well, my earning percentage will go up about 5%/tournament I finish in the money. He has seen me play and likes my style and personality. I am not sure if 10% is too little for my time but he is putting up all the entry fee. I probably would only enter one or two of the events by myself. It will help me get to play in some bigger local events.

Does it seem fair to you guys/gals? I am not sure what to think, right now I am leaning on saying yes.

P.S. My 300th post
 
F

Freakakanus

Legend
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
3,349
If you could go for 30%, I'd do it in a second. !0% seems like a little to low for the gas and time. I know he'd front the entry but he's getting the publicity of you wearing his shirt and the table talk you will inevitably have.
The prize if you should get one should be a little more equitable for you, after all you did do the work. If you should lose, I'm sure the money is not that big of a deal for the bar owner. He brought up the idea of sponsoring you right? He needs to take the risk.

P.s Congrats on 300!
 
Tammy

Tammy

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
May 18, 2005
Total posts
52,534
Awards
10
US
Of course, I have no experience in this type of thing what-so-ever, but my first inclination is that that is too little...I'm not sure though. Maybe someone like perhaps Tenbob or Bill_Hollorian might be able to better answer your question. But at any rate, what a complement to you!
 
holduplaya

holduplaya

Guest
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Total posts
379
Do have the money to pay for it yourself?

I would say yes if you answer no to the above question because, he is putting you in the tournies you get some exposure and earn allittle cash. But tell him you will play in the tourney for 10% but wear the T-shirt for another 20%. The reason he says you only get 10% because he don't have faith in you to make it the final table. Tell him if he dont pay you 40% for making first once you get to the final table your taking that shirt off of his.

Or just simply pay your own way in that way you don't have the burden of knowing you only get a small percentage of you make ( this has to ruin your game on way or the other) ;)
 
rotty

rotty

I triple dog dare ya
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Total posts
3,773
Awards
5
US
The 10% seems a little low but if that is the only way you would be able to play in those particular tourneys, why not, it would be a great experience for you.
Back in the 80's i had sponsers for my entry fees into bowling tourneys and i would get to keep 25% of winnings after all the entry fee's were taken out.
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Total posts
693
What is your current hourly wage playing poker? I think you need to compare that to what is being offered and then add a little on top to make it really worth your while. I'd also push for a bit more if and when you win.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
gfpokerfan said:
I have a bar that wants to sponsor me in about 8 poker tournaments which are all local, no travel needed. The buy-ins range from $100 to $400.

He pays all entry fees, I get to keep 10% of earnings. I will get 25% if I finish first in any event. I just wear a t-shirt of his during the events.

If I do well, my earning percentage will go up about 5%/tournament I finish in the money. He has seen me play and likes my style and personality. I am not sure if 10% is too little for my time but he is putting up all the entry fee. I probably would only enter one or two of the events by myself. It will help me get to play in some bigger local events.

Does it seem fair to you guys/gals? I am not sure what to think, right now I am leaning on saying yes.

Well, it depends on if you can afford the buy-ins without help. IMHO, he should be paying you a one flat fee for the total number of events to advertise, like any other source with that kind of temporary exposure would charge. Then you use the fee to use as you wish, IE using it for the buy-ins, rent, etc.

If you win, you pay him back? That's not advertising. That's "staking" meaning you couldn't afford the buy-ins so he's investing in you.

If you can afford the buy-ins on your own with the set-up you describe, then he should pay a fee & you give him advertising in return, period. The only risk he has is if you don't last long in one or more tournaments, thus less exposure (you could stay at the cardroom a while afterwards, I guess).

Let's say the average of the 8 buy-ins is $200. 200 x 8 = $1600. If he says you're not worth $1600, then charge him less and you make up the slack of the cost of the buy-ins on your own OR you could sell more advertising. Sell one logo on front of your shirt, a different one on back, and different ones on each sleeve (like PGA golfers do). Even one on a hat. Pizza places, bowling alleys, and the like might like the idea. Charge them each as you see fit and you could probably cover more than just the buy-ins & keep your prize money.

Having a sales background as I do, the potential of your situation gives me a rush. Do some research on what different types of advertising costs in the greater Grand Forks area and be armed with that knowledge. You can do it, man. Just don't let anyone take advantage of you. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Bill_Hollorian

Bill_Hollorian

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Total posts
400
Hi GF,

Yea this is a horrible deal for both you and the bar. If you are going to be a horse you need 50% for tournaments with 500plus buy-ins. For small tourneys this deal is doomed to fail. However, there is a deal that can work, and its an easy sell.

1.) It is a deal that can cause mistrust. See you have so little invested that you can be accused of playing poorly. Also, you are suseptible to last longers and side action, to try and pull cash. Or at least you can be accused of that.

2.) Smaller buyins have a larger portion of the prize pools dedicated to the running of the tourney. Usually 30%. So, the bar cant stay in front of this vig, and will soon lose interest.

Sell this to them instead, and everyone is happy. You pay your own buyin, they add 37% of whatever you win to your prize pool. IE. if you win 100 dollars they give you 37 dollars more.

Now, you play with your won money with huge incentive to win. If you final table they get great exposure, and only pay if you get there. Now you stay in front of the 30% house rake, win 1 tourney and your free rolling into the next one.

Hope that helps, I can expand on some of the math or whatever if you need me too.

Cool and good luck,

Bill
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Total posts
1,238
Good idea Bill. I like it except that I don't think I could enter all the tournaments will my bankroll unless I hit top 3 in the first one or two that I played in.

To answer some of the questions I saw.
I would play in two of the eight tournaments if it was up me to front the money by myself. The entry fees for the tournaments are 5-$100 2-$200 and 1-$400 (final table taped for airing on local cable). I really don't have an hourly rate since I mostly play live local tournaments. I could try and find all the prizes I have won and tried to figure one out. I come in the money about 37% of the time no matter what size the field, 30 or 150 people.

I liked his idea because it would get me into alot more poker tournaments than I am right now. I would not be out any money if I don't make the money but still had a chance to make some. I know I would be losing alot for seconds and third place finishes but the extra experience I get would help me in the long run. It would actually add some pressure that I am not use to while playing since it is someone else's money backing me and expecting a return.

Reasons he wanted it, advertising for his bar. He runs tournaments out of his bar and wanted other poker players to see it on me. He knows I can do well (locally) in the tournaments and thought I might just like the challange of it and we both could hopefully make some money out of it.
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
I dont like this idea one bit. 10% is an appaling return, even if you do manage the final table after 4-5 (possibly more) hours of poker, you are getting a very small payday. Ok ok if your after the experience then fine by all means go for it, but trust me after 4 or 4 final tables youll be wondering if its worth it, and if your as good as you say then the side games will be looking more and more appealing when you sit down first.

Id suggest going back to your sponser and suggesting a more 50/50 deal, where you pay 50%of the buy-in and the bar the other 50%, all winnings to be split. This way you can play twice the number of tourneys that you normally would, the bar is getting the SAME exposure/advertising and you will have much more of an interest of doing well long term.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 25, 2005
Total posts
5,587
gfpokerfan said:
Reasons he wanted it, advertising for his bar. He runs tournaments out of his bar and wanted other poker players to see it on me. He knows I can do well (locally) in the tournaments and thought I might just like the challange of it and we both could hopefully make some money out of it.
As Bill said, it would benefit him to give you a higher cut, as you'd have more motivation to win and therefore play better. If you bust out in all of them, he's getting 90% of nothing. 40 or 50% of something is obviously better for him.
 
bigjace

bigjace

Guest
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Total posts
547
I think tenbob is spot on here and there is no way i would get out of bed for 10%.
 
Beriac

Beriac

Guest
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Total posts
743
Even if we assumed that there was no way that he would budge on his 10% offer, there's still some value to it. If you'd have fun, it would get you great experience in a bunch of tourneys at low cost -- think of them as low-stakes tourneys from your perspective.

If, however, it would be something of a hassle to do these and really only worthwhile for a big payday, to the point where you'd really need 30%+ to justify your time, then by all means push for more and if you don't get it, so be it.

But for me, being able to play in more tourneys than I'd otherwise be able to is an advantage unto itself, so if someone made me a 10% take-it-or-leave-it offer, I'd at least consider it. I can see where everyone else is coming from, though.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
MrSticker said:
Sell one logo on front of your shirt, a different one on back, and different ones on each sleeve (like PGA golfers do). Even one on a hat. Pizza places, bowling alleys, and the like might like the idea. Charge them each as you see fit and you could probably cover more than just the buy-ins & keep your prize money!

I'm telling you, dude. Sell logo space and wear more than one logo, especially if it's going to be on cable. Just like NASCAR or Golf. Find out how much the cable company charges and charge accordingly. You have a goldmine waiting for you here! Phil & Jesus have deals with Oakley sunglasses plus their poker sites, so you could have one with this bar PLUS Joe's Pizza Shack or Downtown Bowl or whatever.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Total posts
1,238
Good advice all. The first tournament is on this Saturday and is a $100 buy in, so keep it coming. Still want advice and more input. I trust this site to give me help here.

Mr. Sticker, I love the idea of selling space on my shirt and hat for profit while I play live, but I am not a local poker god who everyone wants to see (only in my dreams). I do well when I play but I just don't do it that often with wife and kids. I don't see anyone really being interested in this except the event that could be on cable, then it would be a great thing for those companies.

I see the flaw in the intitial agreement we talked about. We were mixing up two things, advertising and fronting entry fees, into one agreement. I think it should be one or the other. He can pay my entry fees (will work that out) and work out the arrangement of profits or he can pay me like Bill says for advertising while at the tournaments. I just should not try to tie both of them into the same agreement.

I love Bill's great idea of paying me a % of my winnings for wearing his gear at the tournaments. I don't place, he doesn't have to pay. I do well and lots of people will see his stuff, then he pays more. Makes sense to me, gives me extra insentive to do well, gain an extra 33% of my winnings (may have to cap it though, 33% of a six grand 1st place may be much for one tourament).

If he does not go for that then we will work on a fronting the fees to the tournament. I like the 50/50. It will allow me to get to most of the tournaments and I can easily afford the $400 tournament then. I will wear what I want unless he wants to pay for me to wear something IF, big IF, I get lucky and make it to the final table.

Next question is, which will be more profitable for me?

If I do the fronting entry fee, I only make half of the total, but I can enter more tournament total. I could make it to all 8 instead of 3 or 4 of them.

I do the % of winnings I maximize the times I do make it in the money. Should there be a cap or max for one event. $500? $1000? What would it be worth to see your stuff at a final table in a casino tournament?
 
Count DeMoney

Count DeMoney

Guest
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Total posts
111
What about a sliding scale, more to you the higher you finish? After all the longer you're in the more publicity for the bar, especially at the final table and higher. And it's an incentive for you to play well and not go all crazy early in the tournament.
 
Rockbuster

Rockbuster

Rock Star
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Total posts
190
Yes 10% is way to little plus if you do get into the $$$ and are wearing his t-shirt(logo) Thats great advertising. Alot of the players I knew in Vegas were sponsored by others. The sponsor paid the enterance Fee. If the player if he placed in the $$$. The sponsor was reinbursted his entry fee plus 60% of the net winnings. Meaning the player received 40%. But again you have to be constitant on finishing in the $$$. When you are good you are paid accordingly. I had the priveledge of being sponsored in a big nevada tourn. Sponsor paid entry fee. He was exceptional told me when I got in the $$ he wanted his entry fee back and we would split the winnings 50-50. I placed 4th in a field of over 100. After taxes and entry fee of 7,500.00 we received close to 30k each. So NO I wouldn't spend my time for 10% unless the love of the poker and competition is greater than the time you will be spending............Rock
 
Crippler450

Crippler450

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Total posts
390
It sounds like a good deal to me. I would love to play in poker tournaments where I am not risking any of my own money. 10% seems a little low, just because I may not play my best game knowing that I can only win 10% of the prize money for myself. I think a better situation (if you are confident in your own skills) is to pay half of the entry fee yourself, and keep about 60% of the winnings. For example, if the buy-in is $200, and you win $1200, you keep $720 and your sponsor gets $480. That way you have more motivation to do well, but you only have to pay half of the entry fee. It seems like a better situation for both you and your sponsor in my opinion.
 
dinosdynasty

dinosdynasty

Rock Star
Joined
May 15, 2005
Total posts
151
Where are you playing these tournys? Thief River or Shooting Star? Stayed at TRF between Xmas and New Years but they don't open the tables until Thursday although I was trying to get a sit-n-go up and running but only 2 other guys wanted in.

I would hold out for more than 10%, the tourny would be fun to play and get you more experience but 10% is not a very good hourly wage.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Total posts
1,238
I would be playing the tournaments in Fargo and Grand Forks. The expensive one would be one of the Heartland Tour events. Nice to see someone who knows the area alittle. I am going to Casselton, ND for a $100 buy in on Saturday, maybe see you there.

The bar owner has to think about the two different offers I gave him. He agreed that we have to either front the money or do a % for advertising. He just is not sure which he wants to do.
 
gordo30

gordo30

Rock Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Total posts
272
I get the feeling your happy at having the opportunity do play in all those events with no outlay but %10 is one hell of an effort on your part to make any money at all.Plus what happens if you win one or two and have to hand that cheque and you get such a small cut.Although you could play and gain the experience but i can,t help thinking that it might not be a great one.
 
Top