PokerStars confiscated almost $4000 from me

[Rockyfour]

It's amazing how people just want the casinos to be able to steal peoples money. Just think it's no big deal. You play straight, you win, Casino steals your money.

I could understand if I cheated, but it's pretty crazy that people think someone can play straight and the Casino has the right to put almost $4000 in there pocket.

Maybe one day they will try to steal someone here's money and then we can all laugh at them.

 

[Cooking]

This is a difficult situation. Of course PS should not even allowed you to play after they banned you. The worst thing is that they released your account after the first verification. Unfortunately, I saw many cases like yours since I started to play and in almost all of them, PS pays the money they deposited, but not the money they won.

 

[Rockyfour]

I want people to remember them gambling, and the most money they lost, and how they felt that night, and the day after. Maybe this doesn't apply to everyone, but if you lost more than $500 you probably know the feeling.

Now multiply it by 3. That's how I feel. I've lost 3x more than I've ever lost in my life playing cards. It's like 20% of my net worth wiped off the map when I was playing the game straight.

I can't sleep, I can't eat, I can't play on my comptuer, I just feel like trash. It's a very terrible feeling that nobody should have to go through. At least not like this. Not under these parameters.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Why make deposits at all unless it is to capitalize on a promotional offer or deposit bonus? Isn't it just asking for trouble and taking on unnecessary risk? There are lots of freerolls out there where you can build an initial bankroll and then if you are a good player you can build your bankroll and make regular withdrawals.

Because lots of people don't want to play freerolls. Lots of people don't want to try to grind up a bankroll by playing micro stakes. MOST people don't win and don't make regular withdrawals. Most people actually deposit money so that they can play at the stakes they a) feel like playing at b) are profitable at and don't want to spend countless hours playing freerolls where they could've been spending that time to play for a higher hourly rate

 

[fundiver199]

I think, there are mistakes from both sides here. Starting with OP it should be pretty obvious, its not ok to sign up again with the same company, once you have been banned, just because they now operate under a new license in your area. But with that being said I have a big problem with poker sites confiscating peoples money, and especially when no outright fraud or cheating was involved.

This story is a bit similar to that of a german pro, who signed up on another branch of the GG Poker network after being banned. They let him play for a long time, and only when he starting winning and wanted to withdraw did they find out, that "oh by the way you are banned and not allowed to play here, so we will keep your money".

In both cases the players involved signed up using their real name, the same email adress and so on and so forth. They did not try to hide, who they are, and if the poker site still choose to let them play, they should not claim later, that this was some kind of fraud, because it was not. Of course they can decide, who they want to allow playing, but they should absolutely 100% return peoples money in a situation like this.

 

[Andyreas]

They let him play for a long time, and only when he starting winning and wanted to withdraw did they find out, that "oh by the way you are banned and not allowed to play here, so we will keep your money".

So did the pro get his money in the end?

But yes, I agree it's super shady when they do that.

It's very possible for them to figure out the duplicate accounts:
When I lived in Belgium, I signed up via pokerstars.BE.
Now living in germany, I have to use Pokerstars.EU and had to sign up again. After verification and depositing, I was informed they closed my .BE account which of course is very reasonable.

So they have the opportunity to figure out who is who across the different branches, if they want to.

I hope you get your money back, @Rockyfour

 

[fundiver199]

So did the pro get his money in the end?

Apparently he got his deposit back after some discussion, but GG Poker kept his winnings. Which they then say, they distributed to other players. In my opinion this makes no difference at all though, and I dont even know, if I believe that part of GG Pokers story. Its also part of the story, that in between his original ban in 2016 and the latest ban, he also played on a third skin of the GG Network, where he lost money. So GG Poker was ok with him playing and losing, but when he started winning, they suddenly "remembered" their old ban. Which in the first place was for alledgedly violating their policy about "bum hunting".

GGPoker Confiscated $130.000 in Winnings and Banned a Poker Pro

Professional poker player Tobias Duthweiler was banned from GGPoker and his $130.000 in winnings were returned to the players he played with.

www.gamblingnews.com

 

[fundiver199]

I hope you get your money back, @Rockyfour

So do I. If someone is banned for "responsible gambling reasons", its supposedly to protect them from losing money. So confiscating their money makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[puzzlefish]

So do I. If someone is banned for "responsible gambling reasons", its supposedly to protect them from losing money. So confiscating their money makes no sense whatsoever.

But it's free money for PS! /S

 

[M13A13]

if the person has been banned, immediately return the person's money and suspend the person from all games. It's a difficult situation to understand, on the one hand the player's side and on the other hand the Pokerstars side.
Pokerstars has been claiming for some time that it retains winnings at the table when they discover some fraud, but if the system is secure, how do they find flaws.

 

[Rockyfour]

I want people to objectively think about how ****ed up this is.

The PokerSite is obligated to verify people to make sure the correct people are playing at the site.
If they fail to do this however, do they get penalized? No. They actually get rewarded by being able to confiscate someone's money.
So they are literally being incentivized significantly to do a bad job.

Just think about how ****ed up of a system that is. Just think about how easy it would be to exploit/abuse a system like that.

It would be like if you over-served someone way too much alcohol as a bartender, and a liquor enforcement agent seen, and the agent just told the bartender, "as punishment for over-serving that person I am going to make that person give you his wallet and you can keep all the cash inside".

It's like what?

That is literally what they are doing. It's so outrageous.

 

[Tammy]

Here's a snippet from their ToS, which you agree to when you sign up with them. I'm going to bold the parts I think may apply to you, given that you mentioned being previously banned for "responsible gaming". My comments in blue.
4.6
you are aged 18 or over and that you are not currently self-excluded from any online or mobile gambling site and that you will inform us immediately if you enter into a self-exclusion agreement with any gambling provider; (Any online casinos or poker sites are held to the law on this and have to take very seriously any self-exclusions players place on themselves. It's part of the conditions of their licensing for most, if not all countries that provide legislation on online gambling. If they want to continue to operate, they must follow responsible gaming laws to the letter. There is no grey area here.
4.7
you have provided true and accurate information concerning your physical address and identity, including nationality;
4.8
you are not currently on any list of persons that would prohibit the Group from engaging in business or other dealings, or otherwise offering the Service to you; -Because you are on a list of previously banned players, this puts you in this category.
4.9
you are not prohibited due to your geographic location or otherwise from receiving funds from the Group; and
4.10
if you are identified as such a person as detailed in Clause 4.8 or 4.9, the Group may immediately terminate your account and all access to any of the Services. You fall under this category.
______________________________________________

This is an unfortunate situation, but one that I'm afraid you brought on yourself.

So, now I'd like to insert my own personal speculation/opinion here, given my experience with how websites that require registration work, etc.

I don't know if you guys realize, but I'm am 99.999999% certain there isn't a person sitting at a desk confirming each and every account made as they come up. Most sites have things built into the platform that sends our red flags and checks that then sends notifications to the people to check things out. Registration and other actions done on the PokerStars Ontario may not be integrated in any way with the more global PokerStars site as far as flagging "like" accounts. They are different sites, different software, etc.; though they are under the same company, I feel pretty confident in assuming that they are definitely ran on different platforms that probably are not completely connected.

So it makes sense to me that it was not immediately 'caught' that you were previously banned from PokerStars 'global'. And indeed even with the first confirmation of documents. I am purely speculating here, but it makes sense that those checks were likely done solely on PokerStars Ontario - which likely has no record of your other account from the .com version, so I'm guessing it simply did not come up. Clearly a different set of systems and protocols are triggered within the software(s) when people make withdrawals, and I'm guessing that's when the one hand talks to the other hand that these matches are discovered.

Bottom line is, you were already banned. They are within their rights to do what they did. I do hope that you get at least your initial deposit back, but by you creating another account in the first place, you were in immediate violation of their ToS. It was only a matter of time before you were discovered. And if you were previously banned on another platform for a responsible gaming issue, once they know this they absolutely cannot allow you to play there anymore. All licensed sites are required by law to deal with responsible gaming problems in very specific ways - there is no bending of the rules here - it is taken deadly seriously - no wiggle room at all. This much I do know.

I am really curious what the particulars were around your original ban. You don't have to share that of course, just that it might make the situation more clear.
_____________________________

And just a word of warning if you want to keep this thread open:

Stop calling people dumb/stupid/insert personal insult here (that goes for anyone posting in the thread).

I can understand that you are extremely frustrated with the situation, but that doesn't give you license to be a d*** to people commenting in the thread. Likewise, that doesn't give anyone else the license to be a d*** to you either. So, be respectful everyone.

Also, PokerStars is definitely not running an "exit scam" - that's ridiculous, so I did change the title as it is misleading. Could they make improvements to their software so that these things are caught earlier? Probably. I can only speculate on how they may run things.

 

[miriancastro]

I don't trust any poker room, I always withdraw my winnings as soon as I reach the minimum withdrawal amount

 

[Rockyfour]

Here's a snippet from their ToS, which you agree to when you sign up with them. I'm going to bold the parts I think may apply to you, given that you mentioned being previously banned for "responsible gaming". My comments in blue.
4.6
you are aged 18 or over and that you are not currently self-excluded from any online or mobile gambling site and that you will inform us immediately if you enter into a self-exclusion agreement with any gambling provider; (Any online casinos or poker sites are held to the law on this and have to take very seriously any self-exclusions players place on themselves. It's part of the conditions of their licensing for most, if not all countries that provide legislation on online gambling. If they want to continue to operate, they must follow responsible gaming laws to the letter. There is no grey area here.
4.7
you have provided true and accurate information concerning your physical address and identity, including nationality;
4.8
you are not currently on any list of persons that would prohibit the Group from engaging in business or other dealings, or otherwise offering the Service to you; -Because you are on a list of previously banned players, this puts you in this category.
4.9
you are not prohibited due to your geographic location or otherwise from receiving funds from the Group; and
4.10
if you are identified as such a person as detailed in Clause 4.8 or 4.9, the Group may immediately terminate your account and all access to any of the Services. You fall under this category.
______________________________________________

This is an unfortunate situation, but one that I'm afraid you brought on yourself.

So, now I'd like to insert my own personal speculation/opinion here, given my experience with how websites that require registration work, etc.

I don't know if you guys realize, but I'm am 99.999999% certain there isn't a person sitting at a desk confirming each and every account made as they come up. Most sites have things built into the platform that sends our red flags and checks that then sends notifications to the people to check things out. Registration and other actions done on the PokerStars Ontario may not be integrated in any way with the more global PokerStars site as far as flagging "like" accounts. They are different sites, different software, etc.; though they are under the same company, I feel pretty confident in assuming that they are definitely ran on different platforms that probably are not completely connected.

So it makes sense to me that it was not immediately 'caught' that you were previously banned from PokerStars 'global'. And indeed even with the first confirmation of documents. I am purely speculating here, but it makes sense that those checks were likely done solely on PokerStars Ontario - which likely has no record of your other account from the .com version, so I'm guessing it simply did not come up. Clearly a different set of systems and protocols are triggered within the software(s) when people make withdrawals, and I'm guessing that's when the one hand talks to the other hand that these matches are discovered.

Bottom line is, you were already banned. They are within their rights to do what they did. I do hope that you get at least your initial deposit back, but by you creating another account in the first place, you were in immediate violation of their ToS. It was only a matter of time before you were discovered. And if you were previously banned on another platform for a responsible gaming issue, once they know this they absolutely cannot allow you to play there anymore. All licensed sites are required by law to deal with responsible gaming problems in very specific ways - there is no bending of the rules here - it is taken deadly seriously - no wiggle room at all. This much I do know.

I am really curious what the particulars were around your original ban. You don't have to share that of course, just that it might make the situation more clear.
_____________________________

And just a word of warning if you want to keep this thread open:

Stop calling people dumb/stupid/insert personal insult here (that goes for anyone posting in the thread).

I can understand that you are extremely frustrated with the situation, but that doesn't give you license to be a d*** to people commenting in the thread. Likewise, that doesn't give anyone else the license to be a d*** to you either. So, be respectful everyone.

Also, PokerStars is definitely not running an "exit scam" - that's ridiculous, so I did change the title as it is misleading. Could they make improvements to their software so that these things are caught earlier? Probably. I can only speculate on how they may run things.

It is an exit scam. It's not ridiculous at all. You might think it's ridiculous, but you a moderator, not an arbitrator. You understand. Other people think this is a scam, I think this is a scam, people in my government think it's a scam.

To just say it's not a scam, it's ridiculous so I'm going to censor your post, is a very un-admin thing to do.

Who cares about ToS. This is obviously a scam. You can't just take someones money and put it in your pocket and cite ToS. This isn't over $5.00, this over thousands of dollars.

You might think I'm ridiculous, and that's fine. But I think you are ridiculous. I think you are part of the problem. I think you should have more respect for yourself than allow companies to steal money stating random things such as we previously banned you as we thought you were a gambling addict and therefore we are entitled to take your money.

I think it's ridiculous, that anyone thinks that if they fail to verify someone properly, that gives them the right to just pocket that persons money.

You can say it's not a scam all you want, but at the end of the day, that's just your opinion. To the vast majority of people who look at this, this is a scam even if it's somehow not illegal.

 

[Risto234]

I don't trust any poker room, I always withdraw my winnings as soon as I reach the minimum withdrawal amount

So have you made fortune doing so

 

[Tammy]

It is an exit scam. It's not ridiculous at all. You might think it's ridiculous, but you a moderator, not an arbitrator. You understand. Other people think this is a scam, I think this is a scam, people in my government think it's a scam.

To just say it's not a scam, it's ridiculous so I'm going to censor your post, is a very un-admin thing to do.

Who cares about ToS. This is obviously a scam. You can't just take someones money and put it in your pocket and cite ToS. This isn't over $5.00, this over thousands of dollars.

You might think I'm ridiculous, and that's fine. But I think you are ridiculous. I think you are part of the problem. I think you should have more respect for yourself than allow companies to steal money stating random things such as we previously banned you as we thought you were a gambling addict and therefore we are entitled to take your money.

I think it's ridiculous, that anyone thinks that if they fail to verify someone properly, that gives them the right to just pocket that persons money.

You can say it's not a scam all you want, but at the end of the day, that's just your opinion. To the vast majority of people who look at this, this is a scam even if it's somehow not illegal.

At the end of the day it's still your opinion that it's a scam, when it's not. I gave you my personal thoughts - I'm allowed to have them. Maybe next time before you gamble with $1000s you should make sure that you are following a site's ToS. If it were me, I would have contacted their support first and made sure it was ok if I made an account on the new platform.

And since you clearly can't heed my warning about being respectful and correspond like an adult without insulting people, I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread. You've made your point, people can read through it and draw their own conclusions.