new dealing method

[paumarhas]

the real deal has the real deal, lol.

that's like when i was cooking once a customer asked me, "are these real potatoes?" i almost felt like telling him, "no they're plastic, !!"
so if they're the first to use real cards "what have the other sites been using, lol"
don't worry it sounds good..........thanks and peace.

 

[FEARFACTOR]

not believe is the ideal way! believe that the cards this way that has been done, there are random!

WTF are you saying? You make no sense at all.

 

[OzExorcist]

This video is dumb! Say you divide your cards in half..... then you take the time to take the top card of each deck and put it in a new pile, then repeat until your two piles are down to one...... That is all they are doing after each wash!

OMFG I'd missed the video link until now. I dunno whether it's more dumb than it is funny or more funny than it is dumb. Still, having watched it and read the page I humbly offer the following open questions to the site owners:

1 - You're seriously going to have machines shuffling physical decks of cards for every single hand that's dealt on your site?

2 - No really, be serious. A mechanically shuffled deck of cards for every hand?!?

3 - LOL

4 - Since your system is obviously more expensive than that used by every other poker site in existence, how much extra rake do you plan on charging to cover your expenses?

5 - I assume as your site grows you'll need to add more shuffling machines to cope with the demand. Got a pretty big warehouse or something do you?

6 - Your competitors are well established and operating with significantly lower fixed and variable costs per unit. How long do you give yourselves before you go broke?

7 - Why does "cutting" the deck cause a reshuffle? Surely it should just cause a cut? Or is that process mechanised as well and your machine isn't up to performing a physical cut? Because if it's a full reshuffle and not a physical / virtual cut WTF is the point? Either your punters trust your shuffle or they don't.

8 - Having a player cut the deck is a home game / self-dealt thing anyway. No sane casino in the world would let the players touch the deck stub. Makes you look pretty amateur, amirite? Or does this say more about the kind of punters you're looking to attract?

9 - Having a player cut the deck carries with it the implication that the shuffle couldn't be trusted in the first place. Are you concerned about what this says about your site and the confidence you're inspiring in your shuffle method?

10 - I'm completely lost on this last one - how exactly does your system eliminate bots? Do you think they couldn't be programmed to press a virtual "cut / no cut" button or something? Or do you not understand what bots do?

11 - Seriously, just how dumb do you think people are?

12 - LOL. Srsly.

 

[IcyBlueAce]

I agree. Hard to believe if they have 1000 hands per hour that they'll do this. How many machines are they using?

The site says that its "BASED" off a real shuffled deck.. So what I'm guessing is they have a computer randomize many new decks from the real shuffled one.

Just like the other sites do, only with other random things.

You always gotta remember when something says its BASED off of something else.. like when a movie is BASED from real events.. lol.

 

[StormRaven]

Should be easy money to be made there when it launches, imo. Given their marketing approach, I expect it to be full of fish who think the reason they can`t win is because online poker is "rigged". :laugh:

^^^Exactly what I was thinking! The gimmick is going to work on many people who haven't got a clue about variance, or how to really play for that matter, and the pickings will probably be very good!

 

[Prof_Kush]

I actually met the card shuffler system inventor in Vegas at the Global Gaming Expo. It's always expected that when a new system or approach comes out that there's skepticism, but I sat down with Gene Gioia and it's really a solid approach to the game. As he explained it, with Random Number Generators - there's really no rhyme or reason for the cards that it deals to people. It's like a home game or casino game where the dealer just picks cards out of their heads and there's no way to audit or verify the fairness of the game. With the shuffler - and he's spent many years developing this - it's as if you were sitting in front of a dealer who is shuffling. Every hand can be audited and proven to be fair. Gene's tried to convince himself for years that poker sites offer a fair game, but so many ususual patterns occur with online poker versus a real life poker game. It's supposed to launch in March - so I guess I would say, don't knock it 'til you try it.
By the way - Gioia Systems - the inventor of the auto shuffler is based in US. The poker site is based in the UK. Gene said that US players will be eligible to play for promotions and really great prizes. Where it's legal to play for money - money plays.

Let's all just try it before we down it - it won't be too long before we can test it out anyways.

You must work for Gene ... I hope he pays well!!!!!

 

[Vfranks]

What happens when the shuffling machine breaks mid deal or mid hand?
Or if it's based on real hands, then would that just be a stored database of pre played hands, risking the chance of playing the same hand twice? with the same outcome?
or is it randomly based on a real database of numbers from a real live shuffling machine that one day was in existense of use by some guy one time in a point of time for some odd reason man?

 

[OzExorcist]

The site says that its "BASED" off a real shuffled deck.. So what I'm guessing is they have a computer randomize many new decks from the real shuffled one.

...but that's not really different from any other site. It's not like their physical deck has different cards in it to a virtual one or anything so what's the point of having the physical deck, the shuffle machine and the video confirmation - to prove that there really were 52 cards in the deck?

 

[salim271]

I watched the video and the machine looks overly complicated... this site will probably have more technical difficulties than full tilt.

 

[Stick66]

Thread bump since this thread was the subject of a video response by RealDealPoker. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-rooms-10/cc-mentioned-realdealpoker-174730/#post1460411

 

[TheKAAHK]

^ this. If there's rhyme and reason to the cards you're getting from a live dealer they're doing their job wrong. That's not something we should be looking to replicate online.

Personally I think the system used by Full Tilt and other sites where there's no burn cards and the deck stub is constantly being shuffled is better than the live system. I'm a live game dealer and I still think that.

Really? So you like that while agonizing wether or not to call the SS all-in with your open-ender w/pair (just a hypothetical example), if you act one second longer or one second sooner it will completely change the outcome of the next card?

I don't know about you, but I prefer knowing that the turn card will always remain the same no matter how many nanoseconds it takes me to make up my mind.

Does anybody else realize that random is random no matter how many times the deck is shuffled? I just don't see the point of constantly shuffling the deck AFTER the hand has been dealt. If the RNG is so secure (which I'm sure it is) and the software un-hackable (which again, it is), then...why?

 

[poker d player]

When I found out about this I was a bit suprised, but it really doesnt matter I supose weather the "shuffeling" is b4 the deal or continously. It does make rabbit hunting a bit meaningless tho ... lol

 

[OzExorcist]

Does anybody else realize that random is random no matter how many times the deck is shuffled? I just don't see the point of constantly shuffling the deck AFTER the hand has been dealt. If the RNG is so secure (which I'm sure it is) and the software un-hackable (which again, it is), then...why?

I couldn't care less if it means the next card is 'different' from what it was supposed to be because we're getting exactly what we're supposed to get: a random card.

The fact that the contstant shuffle adds another layer of protection in the (admittedly unlikely) event that someone manages to hack the site means for me the question isn't so much "why?" as it is "why not?!?"

 

[Tom1559]

It is the nearest thing so far to live poker and that is welcomed. Of course there will still be bad beats but it should stop the suggestions of some sites fixing hands - which I do not believe by the way.

 

[tomh7795]

I agree that this site is only doing this to promote their site and to make it look as if it's not rigged like people think other sites are. This site will just crash and burn.

 

[Egon Towst]

If anyone is interested, RealDeal is running in beta now and should go public pretty soon. I was going to post a screenshot, but it looks like they have closed the beta today (maybe finalising for launch ??). It wasn`t anything unusual to look at, in all honesty. I played a few hands, yawned, and went back to Full Tilt and Ipoker.

 

[TheKAAHK]

I couldn't care less if it means the next card is 'different' from what it was supposed to be because we're getting exactly what we're supposed to get: a random card.

The fact that the contstant shuffle adds another layer of protection in the (admittedly unlikely) event that someone manages to hack the site means for me the question isn't so much "why?" as it is "why not?!?"

Lol! It's still random, no matter how many times it's shuffled. Ever go to a casino or play in any cardroom in the last 12 years (I've only been playing live that long) and see the dealer shuffling between streets? I think not. And that, I believe is "why not". As in, it's not so much a necessity as a gimmick.

And as far as hacking is concerned, I think there are already many threads about that subject so I'll summarize them here: "Not bloody likely"

 

[OzExorcist]

Lol! It's still random, no matter how many times it's shuffled. Ever go to a casino or play in any cardroom in the last 12 years (I've only been playing live that long) and see the dealer shuffling between streets? I think not. And that, I believe is "why not". As in, it's not so much a necessity as a gimmick.

And as far as hacking is concerned, I think there are already many threads about that subject so I'll summarize them here: "Not bloody likely"

Absolutely you don't see casino dealers shuffling the deck stub in between streets. I know this because I am a live game dealer. Despite this, my opinion still stands.

There's a few reasons live dealers don't shuffle the deck stub between streets. Probably the biggest one is that live poker is slow enough already. It would also introduce the possibility that a card could be flashed to one or more players, who would then have additional information about the makeup of the deck. And, of course, shuffling the deck between streets in front of all the players would make the fish at the table lose their tiny little minds.

Online, none of these issues exist. Continuous shuffling carries no time penalty, there's absolutely no chance of a card being flashed and the fish can't see it happening so unless they go hunting they won't even know.

Your argument basically boils down to "it shouldn't be done because it doesn't happen in live games". Online games (other than the ones RealDeal are proposing) don't use burn cards either - that's different to live games, should we be worried about that? AFAIK they don't cut the deck after shuffling either (again, aside from RealDeal), something which live dealers do. Should we be worried? We don't have card protectors online - problem? People can't act out of turn online, another problem?

So I ask again, why not? And as a follow up, why does it even matter?

 

[TheKAAHK]

Absolutely you don't see casino dealers shuffling the deck stub in between streets. I know this because I am a live game dealer. Despite this, my opinion still stands.

There's a few reasons live dealers don't shuffle the deck stub between streets. Probably the biggest one is that live poker is slow enough already. It would also introduce the possibility that a card could be flashed to one or more players, who would then have additional information about the makeup of the deck. And, of course, shuffling the deck between streets in front of all the players would make the fish at the table lose their tiny little minds.

Online, none of these issues exist. Continuous shuffling carries no time penalty, there's absolutely no chance of a card being flashed and the fish can't see it happening so unless they go hunting they won't even know.

Your argument basically boils down to "it shouldn't be done because it doesn't happen in live games". Online games (other than the ones RealDeal are proposing) don't use burn cards either - that's different to live games, should we be worried about that? AFAIK they don't cut the deck after shuffling either (again, aside from RealDeal), something which live dealers do. Should we be worried? We don't have card protectors online - problem? People can't act out of turn online, another problem?

So I ask again, why not? And as a follow up, why does it even matter?

Ok, maybe you all got the wrong idea from my post. I am not arguing the similarities or differences betwen live and online play. I know constant shuffling would make hands go slower and all the other inherant risks. I know online play dosn't cut/burn cards.

I am simply bringing up the fact that I don't agree that the constant shuffle after the deal is necessary, or even right.

This is my own personal opinion that I thought I'd share.

I like the Real Deal system. Before the advent of online poker, once the deck was shuffled, it remained "static" throughout the remainder of the hand. This is how the game of poker in all it's variations came to be as we know them today, and in some forms of poker has been used for decades or more. Nowadays in the virtual world, on most online sites it is not. The deck is always in a "fluid" state. While this fluid deck might appear to be the pinnacle or randomness, it still, while being used, changes the game.

How so you might ask? Like I stated in my first example: So you like that while agonizing wether or not to call the SS all-in with your open-ender w/pair (just a hypothetical example), if you act one second longer or one second sooner it will completely change the outcome of the next card?

So by having a constantly shuffled deck the outcome of the game may be more dependant on the moment you click your mouse than by the decisions you make. Again, this is just what I believe and is an opinion only.

BTW, if they can work the bugs out of Real Deal, I'll be there. At least to give it a fair chance.

 

[NCfoldem]

But don't they shuffle after every card online as opposed to real life to help foil the software cheats from reading the cards coming next? I always wondered if the hand "plays" differently with so much shuffling? Would it be more common or less for the flop to be 6 6 6 online? I don't know the answer - just wondering. -

 

[OzExorcist]

I am simply bringing up the fact that I don't agree that the constant shuffle after the deal is necessary, or even right.

This is my own personal opinion that I thought I'd share.

That's fine - I'm just saying it's horses for courses.

Live games have burn cards to solve a problem that's unique to live poker: the potential for a card to become marked. In reality, particularly in casinos, marked cards aren't actually that big a problem. Yet every single game everywhere in the world uses burn cards.

IMO constant shuffling solves a problem that's unique to online poker: the potential for someone to hack the system and gain knowledge of the deck order. Is it likely, or does it happen often? No. But like burn cards in a live game it's done anyway, just in case.

 

[OzExorcist]

But don't they shuffle after every card online as opposed to real life to help foil the software cheats from reading the cards coming next? I always wondered if the hand "plays" differently with so much shuffling? Would it be more common or less for the flop to be 6 6 6 online? I don't know the answer - just wondering. -

It'll happen just as often online as it will live, and the constant shuffling has no effect on how the hand "plays" because as discussed above, what you're supposed to get on the board is five random cards and that's exactly what both methods (fixed deck and constant shuffle) give you.