Live MTT issue

Effexor

Effexor

Cardschat Elite
Joined
May 13, 2006
Total posts
1,773
Chips
0
Last night I played in a live tourney and after I busted out this issue occured, was wondering what everyone thought about it.

Everyone folds around to the button ( Woman ) who goes all in.
Man A in the small blind calls, as does Man B in the BB.

Flop comes, SB checks, BB says "lets check it down to try and eliminate her", SB says " I'm ok with that.

BB then checks.

Turn comes, both men check.

River comes, SB says " I FOLD ". BB turns, looks at the SB guy, pauses.

Woman flips over her pocket Aces.

The tourney director, who was standing next to me watching says to the woman "Your hand is mucked because you acted out of turn, the pot is awarded to Man B (in the BB)"

Was the directors decision correct?
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
Chips
0
Completely incorrect decision. What's the guy left to do? There is no "turn" for the guy because it's a heads-up showdown with an all-in. He can't check. He can't raise. He wouldn't fold. The next utterance would be from the dealer saying "Everybody turn 'em over."

I hope management got wind of this. I'm not hoping the TD loses his job, but someone needs to teach him some rules and get him a clue (or maybe he was a male chauvinist woman-hater).
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Total posts
2,380
Chips
0
I would have looked at the tourney director and said collusion when he said "lets check it down".

Telling someone how to play thier hand is wrong.

You can turn your cards over anytime you want long as it doesn't touch the Muck Pile. It be stupid though if you did turn them over early but doesn't mean the hand would be over with.
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
13,414
Chips
0
Note: These responses are based on "Robert's Rules of Poker" which, as far as I know, is the general standard that nearly all live play adheres to.

I would have looked at the tourney director and said collusion when he said "lets check it down".
Absolutely right. Although it may have only been handed out as a warning if this was the first infraction of the kind addressed. But it is a blatant violation of basic poker ettiquette.

You can turn your cards over anytime you want long as it doesn't touch the Muck Pile. It be stupid though if you did turn them over early but doesn't mean the hand would be over with.
Gotta disagree with you here. Technically she did act out of turn. In normal live tournament play (and typically online as well from what I've seen), once the SB folded, the next thing to happen would be for the BB to expose his hand and be awarded the side pot if there was one. Then, the woman in this case would have the option of showing or mucking her cards for the main pot. I don't agree with how the TD handled the situation as she was acting in good faith in trying to speed things along knowing she had the nuts. I think it was poor judgement on his part. Having said that, his ruling was within the letter of the law, but not within the spirit of the law.

Just for clarity, here is the published version of the rule (again for Robert's rules). If there is a side pot, the winner of that pot should be decided before the main pot is awarded. If there are multiple side pots, they are decided and awarded by having the pot with the players starting the deal with the greatest number of chips settled first, and so forth.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Total posts
6,374
Chips
0
Technically she did act out of turn. In normal live tournament play (and typically online as well from what I've seen), once the SB folded, the next thing to happen would be for the BB to expose his hand and be awarded the side pot if there was one.
THERE IS NO "TURN" ONCE IT BECOMES HEADS-UP! You and I know the BB wouldn't budge a muscle until the dealer said "Turn 'em up." There is no action to be seen, unless you say the BB could fold the hand. If so, this would be idiotic. Heads-up is heads-up, no matter how you get there. It doesn't matter who exposes first, the heads-up condition presides. You could burp, fart, or squeek and it would still be a heads-up showdown all-in.

Pretty stupid to be even debating this. My 7-year old could figure it out.
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
13,414
Chips
0
THERE IS NO "TURN" ONCE IT BECOMES HEADS-UP! You and I know the BB wouldn't budge a muscle until the dealer said "Turn 'em up." There is no action to be seen, unless you say the BB could fold the hand. If so, this would be idiotic. Heads-up is heads-up, no matter how you get there. It doesn't matter who exposes first, the heads-up condition presides. You could burp, fart, or squeek and it would still be a heads-up showdown all-in.

Pretty stupid to be even debating this. My 7-year old could figure it out.

Looking back at the the original details, I would tend to agree with most of your response. (Note that if there was a sidepot, you would be wrong about acting in turn, like it or not. Ask your 7 year old.) But there wasn't a sidepot, so I'll go along with you on this.

And I've already said that I don't agree with how the TD handled it, but before you reply and continue on with this "idiotic" debate, think of it from the purists view: Once the TD or floor person makes a decision, that decision is final. Next hand. Live and learn, don't make that same mistake twice.
 
Organize a Home Poker Game
Top