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constantinm
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Andyreas
Moderator
Moderator
Hi,
Due to the structure, the variance is higher than in multitable SnGs:
Time before all-in in Stage 2 is short and it's a shootout structure, so this increases variance from my point of view.
From what I know, the recommended buyin ratio is about 30x for regular SnGs and at least 100x for MTTs.
For battle royale, the answer probably lies in the middle, so I'd opt for around 50 buyins.
So you'd need around 12.50$ for 0.25 and can think about rising stakes from around 50$.
Hope that helps.
Due to the structure, the variance is higher than in multitable SnGs:
Time before all-in in Stage 2 is short and it's a shootout structure, so this increases variance from my point of view.
From what I know, the recommended buyin ratio is about 30x for regular SnGs and at least 100x for MTTs.
For battle royale, the answer probably lies in the middle, so I'd opt for around 50 buyins.
So you'd need around 12.50$ for 0.25 and can think about rising stakes from around 50$.
Hope that helps.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
In addition to Andyreas comments the 15 minute time limit in stage 1 and 5 minute time limit in stage 2 makes these games more difficult to beat, than a regular 30-man SnG would be. So depending on the rake these could be almost unbeatable games, where only the house is the long term winner. In which case its not even possible to have a bankroll but only a budget 
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rhoudini
Rock Star
Platinum Level
I think that the key for the battle royale is in how you play the second stage.
Because only one player advances to the money, you need to be quite sharp in this shootout to be successful in this format.
Also, you NEED to understand very well when and when not go for bounties, because your ITM rate will not be as high as it would be in a normal 30-man SnG (due to the 2nd phase). Therefore, you need to get bounties to at least have something back when you don't get through the 2nd phase.
Because only one player advances to the money, you need to be quite sharp in this shootout to be successful in this format.
Also, you NEED to understand very well when and when not go for bounties, because your ITM rate will not be as high as it would be in a normal 30-man SnG (due to the 2nd phase). Therefore, you need to get bounties to at least have something back when you don't get through the 2nd phase.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
The second stage is pretty much the same as a standard 3-handed winner-takes-all Spin n Go apart from the complexion added by bounties. So the strategy here is just to win as many chips as possible, before the 5-minute clock change it to a lottery. Spin n Gos on 888 Poker used to be like this, so the idea is not new, and its still as bad, as it was, when 888 Poker introduced it.
The interesting part of battle royale is stage one, where any stack not in top-15 becomes worthless after 15 minutes. This creates a very special dynamic, when the 15 minutes approaches, where players not in top-15 are encouraged to gamble wildly to get there, while players in the low part of top-15 need to be very conservative with even entering pots, since losing 20% of their chips can be just as costly as losing 100%.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Actually 30 BIs is more for cash games, and only when you have a high winrate. Maybe it can be used also also for heads-up SnGs and DoNs, where you cash 50% of the time. But for more traditional single table SnGs like 6-man or 9-man 50 BIs is already fairly aggressive bankroll management. And for MTT-SnGs we really want something more like 75-100 BIs. This might sound weird, when we also use 100 BIs for MTTs, but the reason is, with MTTs we normally play a span of buyins. So if we have $350, we might play a mix of $1,1, $ 2,2 and $3,3 MTTs. But if we are playing the battle royal, it will always be the $3 games, and therefore our average buyin will be higher.
With that being said in this case the jump between limits is so wide, that more aggressive bankroll management is needed, if we dont want it to take forever to move up. So maybe here we modify the rule and start taking "shots", as soon as we have more than 100 BIs for our current limit. So with >$30 we start taking "shots" at $1 games, with >$100, we start taking "shots" at $3 games, and with >$300, we start taking "shots" at $10 games. However if we now want to play the $10 games for profit, then we dont begin to withdraw winnings, until we have at least $750 and preferably $1.000. The reason being, that at this point we really dont want to have to ever move back down again.
And by "shots" I mean just that. Lets say a winning session brings our bankroll to $113. Then the next session maybe we play 8 x $1 games and 2 x $3 games. If its another winning session, and now we have $128, then next session we play 7 x $1 games and 3 x $3 games. And so on and so forth. And if we drop back below $100, we stop with $3 games completely. No excuses and no exceptions. We dont keep playing them, because now we feel, we "belong" at this limit. If that is our feeling, we deposit another $200, so that we now have a proper bankroll for $3 games.
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constantinm
Rising Star
Bronze Level
These are my stats for 0.25 from pokercraft in the loby:
Total winnings: 28.32
Total games: 113
Total kill: 154
Stage 1 pass %: 41.23%
Stage 2 pass %: 21.06%
Final AVG finish: 3.29 / 5
I think i will do this way:
1. 25$ for 0.25 - target 100$
2. 100$ for 1$ - target 300$, on 35$ back to 1.)
3. 300$ for 3$ - target 1000$, on 140$ back to 2.)
I've been playing for a while, but only now I started to study, reading about strategy.
maybe this thing will help me and honestly I didn't even play very often, occasionally.
playing with shots doesn't suit me I go into tilt quite quickly
thanks for the answers🙏🏼
Total winnings: 28.32
Total games: 113
Total kill: 154
Stage 1 pass %: 41.23%
Stage 2 pass %: 21.06%
Final AVG finish: 3.29 / 5
I think i will do this way:
1. 25$ for 0.25 - target 100$
2. 100$ for 1$ - target 300$, on 35$ back to 1.)
3. 300$ for 3$ - target 1000$, on 140$ back to 2.)
I've been playing for a while, but only now I started to study, reading about strategy.
maybe this thing will help me and honestly I didn't even play very often, occasionally.
playing with shots doesn't suit me
I go into tilt quite quicklythanks for the answers🙏🏼
Andyreas
Moderator
Moderator
Am I right in assuming that the pokercraft winnings have not yet deducted by buyin?
So it means you really won 28.32 - 28.25 (=113x0.25) is a real win of 0.07$.
Am I right in assuming that you're still up by more since you used the freebie tickets?
Nevertheless wish you best of luck with the experiment but maybe @fundiver199 is right that this structure is unbeatable in the long run...
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constantinm
Rising Star
Bronze Level
1. yes
2. 🙊🙈 yes, but it's the only type of game where after 100+ I'm somehow on the plus side...
3. yes
I'll play with these until I see what I do, I'll come back with an update
and maybe in May, after the scoops, I'll come back with a bigger update
I think my goal is more to play as often as possible until I try my luck at scoops
the first stage is a game like push (All in) or fold
in stage two if I enter with ~2.5k I can dominate the table and then it doesn't matter anymore when everyone is allin after 3 min
on the last one...I still have to observe the game at this stage
this is my approach for battle
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
How much is the starting stack in this game? If its more than 10-15BB, you should not be playing push-fold, until the blinds have gone up.
ICM does not matter in a winner takes all format, so you are just trying to win as many chips as possible, like if it was a cash game.
The last stage is just like any other 5-handed final table in a PKO.
Andyreas
Moderator
Moderator
It's 50 BBs. But in the 0.25$ game, many people will just push any pair or even weak Ax. I assume they tend to do it more with the freebie tickets to not waste too much time. 😅
True. With the difference that due to the structure, everyone will be around 10-15 BBs and close to push/fold again.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
The ticking 15 minute clock does make it nessesary to gamble more. But even so I can not imagine, its good strategy to push any pair or rag ace with 50BB. The way to take advantage of other players pushing to wide is to call them with hands like 99 or AJ, that would normally be a fold to a 50BB jam, but that dominate some of their range, if they are pushing this wide.
In truth this is not all that diffirent from the final table in other turbo MTT-SnG formats. But of course quite different from a regular speed MTT.
Gallarado777
Legend
Loyaler
I think you don't have enough money to play for 0.25 cents, $40-50 will be enough to feel very good in this mode at such small stakes as you should choose to play, of course, if you feel good to play for more if things don't go well, play less