GG hud stats RLY?

[Funtast]

The inbuild hud GGPoker offers is a total mess. At least the 3bet and attempt to steal stats are completely wrong 100% of the time.

The funny part is that its wrong in a way that generates action, far more action.
The average 3bet value is around 15-20%, lose aggressive players reach up to 50%!!!
For ATS the values reach 85% for agressive but non maniac players. Sure thing. You might think well well it can somehow be translated to normal stats at a ratio of like 4 to 1 or something. But guess what. The nits have even higher 3bet values, meaning that the less hands you play, the more your 3bet value will rise per 3bet.
Its quite funny to see people with 3/2 stats and 25% 3bet where they ALWAYS have KK+.

I dont get how this sort of fraud can be legal.

And now the WOOOOORST part of it: GG acts as if everything is fine with their hud. Although this "problem" (money print feature) is well known.

I even wrote them an email asking for explanation of their rigged stats. They answered me:
1. Their RNG works correct. Completely random.
2. Variance can be a bitch.
3. Poker is never played against the house. The house doesn't care which player wins more.
O RLY?

What do you think about that?

ps: I mean honestly it can't take longer than 30 minutes to fix this.

 

[Andyreas]

I do not play extensively at GGPoker but from a first impression, I can't confirm your observations about the HUD tbh.

Especially I haven't seen that excessive stats for 3-bet or ATS in the MTTs I play.

Since the HUD only takes into account the hands of the current session, basically you have to sit a while at the tables with the players for the HUD numbers to make sense.

If there are only 3 hands and he played/raised 2/3 of them in late position, his ATS will be 66% and it he 3-bet one of them, it will be 33% but both values are meaningless with 3 hands.

 

[Pokerpoet2]

I do not play on GG but would not put it past them, if players use their HUD and can confirm your findings, They would want more action from players in order to finish games quicker and move on to another game, The question then becomes "Is this a form of Rigging?" They technically would not be cheating Players by rigging the results of a game, but would be encouraging players to be more aggressive in their game play in order for more action and more games played.
Interesting Dilemma!

 

[puzzlefish]

The inbuild hud GGPoker offers is a total mess. At least the 3bet and attempt to steal stats are completely wrong 100% of the time.

The funny part is that its wrong in a way that generates action, far more action.
The average 3bet value is around 15-20%, lose aggressive players reach up to 50%!!!
For ATS the values reach 85% for agressive but non maniac players. Sure thing. You might think well well it can somehow be translated to normal stats at a ratio of like 4 to 1 or something. But guess what. The nits have even higher 3bet values, meaning that the less hands you play, the more your 3bet value will rise per 3bet.
Its quite funny to see people with 3/2 stats and 25% 3bet where they ALWAYS have KK+.

I dont get how this sort of fraud can be legal.

And now the WOOOOORST part of it: GG acts as if everything is fine with their hud. Although this "problem" (money print feature) is well known.

I even wrote them an email asking for explanation of their rigged stats. They answered me:
1. Their RNG works correct. Completely random.
2. Variance can be a bitch.
3. Poker is never played against the house. The house doesn't care which player wins more.
O RLY?

What do you think about that?

ps: I mean honestly it can't take longer than 30 minutes to fix this.

The house cares that they get more rake.

But do you have proof that the stats are wrong? Does GG allow you to have your own tracker to compare to theirs?

I don't play on GG because they refuse to let me affiliate with Cardschat once I registered.

 

[Funtast]

The house cares that they get more rake.

But do you have proof that the stats are wrong? Does GG allow you to have your own tracker to compare to theirs?

I don't play on GG because they refuse to let me affiliate with Cardschat once I registered.

You can proof by:
1. Your brain which will tell you that chances those stats are true are 1 to infinite.
2. You play 1000 hands and count the 3 bet stats of all players, middle them, count all played 3 bets and voila.
3. You simply count your own 3bets divided by chances to 3bet and voila.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I do not play on GG but would not put it past them, if players use their HUD and can confirm your findings, They would want more action from players in order to finish games quicker and move on to another game, The question then becomes "Is this a form of Rigging?" They technically would not be cheating Players by rigging the results of a game, but would be encouraging players to be more aggressive in their game play in order for more action and more games played.
Interesting Dilemma!

I think what OP is insinuating is, they have the stats. set much higher than reality, creating more action > Bigger pots > more rake

I believe he's referring to cash tables.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I do not play extensively at GGPoker but from a first impression, I can't confirm your observations about the HUD tbh.

Especially I haven't seen that excessive stats for 3-bet or ATS in the MTTs I play.

Since the HUD only takes into account the hands of the current session, basically you have to sit a while at the tables with the players for the HUD numbers to make sense.

If there are only 3 hands and he played/raised 2/3 of them in late position, his ATS will be 66% and it he 3-bet one of them, it will be 33% but both values are meaningless with 3 hands.

This actually isn't true.

To illustrate my statement, I just looked up a tournament and then joined as on OBSERVER with 3 players left on the final table (I did not play in this tournament today). It was the $25 GG Masters Double Stack $30k Gtd. (today's game).

I just took screenshots of each of the player's HUDs. Why would I have over 400 hands on them when I didn't even play a single tournament this month on GGPoker?

 

[Poker Orifice]

For this table...

 

[Poker Orifice]

But do you have proof that the stats are wrong? Does GG allow you to have your own tracker to compare to theirs?

I don't play on GG because they refuse to let me affiliate with Cardschat once I registered.

On the cash game tables, the 3Bet % is HUGE! for many players. 18-25% for half the players on the table. It's unheard of.
When I first began playing on there & attempted to make sense of the GG HUD, it just seemed crazy and I wanted to know how they arrived at those numbers. (even my own numbers were skewed to being much more aggro than my stats. elsewhere... like 2 to 3x more aggro)

 

[Andyreas]

This actually isn't true.

To illustrate my statement, I just looked up a tournament and then joined as on OBSERVER with 3 players left on the final table (I did not play in this tournament today). It was the $25 GG Masters Double Stack $30k Gtd. (today's game).

Maybe I did not phrase myself correctly:
It does indeed shows the hands of the current session of the player, not only the hands you watched. But not their overall hands. Neither the hands you already have on them beforehand.

When I late reg an MTT, I always see some hands of other players in the stats since they already played before me.

But on the other hand, I sometimes have notes on other players, so have played against them but in some SnG or battle royale freebie, the hands in the HUD are 0. Actually everyone starts with 0 in BR.

 

[Luvart]

I played a lot on GG this year, micro cash and I agree with you that the reliability of their inbuild HUD is very questionable (or perhaps suspiciously questionable)

At 6-max tables most of the time about 4-5 players at the table had 3bet stats of 16%, 18%, 23%, 27%, etc....but their action on the table didn't justify that stats.

Personally, I do not take the HUD so seriously. To be honest, nowadays, I don't look at it almost at all.

 

[Andyreas]

I was curious, so I jumped into the Rush&Cash micro tables.

While some players indeed have a high 3-bet stat, also a lot have 0 or below 10%. So that's regarding to the general picture.

But I stumbled across these HUD stats:

So pretty much a bit with VPIP of 5% but 56% of 3-bet and 100% ATS. I'm not a HUD expert tbh but looks like they put the 3-bet and ATS relative to the PFR? So basically he 3-bet every second hand of the hands he opened and looks like they also put a 3-bet as ATS. At least that's what I interpret here.

 

[Funtast]

In that case it' obvious that you should always take your chips and run if he enters the scene, however there are other nits, with like 10-12 PFR that have 20% 3bet and its always the fcking nuts, totally unbalanced.

 

[puzzlefish]

So then GG has a broken HUD that they won't admit is broken, or are you just not communicating to them why you think it is broken? If you told them it is rigged, I can see how they would assume you are talking about their RNG rather than their HUD.

 

[Funtast]

So then GG has a broken HUD that they won't admit is broken, or are you just not communicating to them why you think it is broken? If you told them it is rigged, I can see how they would assume you are talking about their RNG rather than their HUD.

I explained them exacly what pisses me off. I even tried a second time, than they told me the definition of a 3bet. I then stated that I am not sure if we understand each other and got no answer.

 

[puzzlefish]

I explained them exacly what pisses me off. I even tried a second time, than they told me the definition of a 3bet. I then stated that I am not sure if we understand each other and got no answer.

Looks like their support team isn't versed in poker. Must be outsourced to random people who will work for cheap.

 

[Funtast]

Looks like their support team isn't versed in poker. Must be outsourced to random people who will work for cheap.

When you don't like a question but you have to answer in some way..