Dealer talking - Live

K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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When I played @ the Nugget recently, there was a hand with a rather large pot in which the winner ended up being folded to. There were two players in the hand (loser/winner), both mucked. After the winner mucked another player asked "what did he (winner) have?" :dealer (looking at winners cards) "he (winner) had 7's"; then someone else says "well what did he (folder) have?"; dealer "he had 8's, I saw them as he mucked them (exact words)". Neither player said anything, but I would've been pissed! Even if the dealer did not see the actual cards and was talking out his a$$, I don't think it's right.. is it? I mean, if I folded I did it because I didn't want them to know what I had. I didn't say anything since I was not in the hand, but a dealer shouldn't talk about hands if they were mucked... right?
 
daxter70

daxter70

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When I played @ the Nugget recently, there was a hand with a rather large pot in which the winner ended up being folded to. There were two players in the hand (loser/winner), both mucked. After the winner mucked another player asked "what did he (winner) have?" :dealer (looking at winners cards) "he (winner) had 7's"; then someone else says "well what did he (folder) have?"; dealer "he had 8's, I saw them as he mucked them (exact words)". Neither player said anything, but I would've been pissed! Even if the dealer did not see the actual cards and was talking out his a$$, I don't think it's right.. is it? I mean, if I folded I did it because I didn't want them to know what I had. I didn't say anything since I was not in the hand, but a dealer shouldn't talk about hands if they were mucked... right?

what was u smokin???:icon_sant
 
Cheezymadman

Cheezymadman

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I would've grabbed my chips, stood up, and walked away without tipping him. That's complete bullshit.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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with your title i expected that this was a thread about dealers socializing with the players....but...this is just wrong.....

i might take a sawed off shotgun out if that happens at a table im at
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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It is quite possible that the op has misremembered the situation, or misinterpreted it at least. It could be that the hand was checked down as opposed to a bet and fold, and thus anyone in the hand IS entitled to see any of the other players cards (just like you can go peek in the hand history on line, even though the losing player "mucked" the hand). Or, it's possible that the dealer was just joking around, and it was misinterpreted it as serious.
 
K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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The OP remembers correctly. (Winner) bet out and (loser) mucked. When asked what (winner) had, the dealer tilted the cards, looked at them and stated what they were. Weather the dealer was accurate or not to me makes no difference. If (winner) didn't want to show then they should've been mucked. As the dealer called it, the loser had a higher pair than the winner. Why would the loser muck a higher pair? Granted it's happened by accident on more than one occasion I'm sure.

No offense AG, but why so doubtful? I was there and remember correctly as it was burned into my brain that a dealer spoke about a hand that was folded to. At the time I was shocked because I didn't think a dealer should/could do that... which is why I posted here, to see if that was allowed.

As for checked down, even if he accidentally folded top pair, should a dealer really say what he had? I know on bodog, if you muck your losing hand, it will not show your hand to the table, even in HH. I mean, if you were chasing a draw and didn't catch it, should the dealer have the right to tell the table you were chasing? I would think the dealers proper response would be, "If the player would like to tell what he had he can".
 
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switch0723

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im going to give you some help for playing live poker, if the hand goes to showdown, you are entitled to see all cards mucked at showdown. It is frowned upon but is perfectly legal. I dont think it is in cash games though, only tournys, but im not sure on that point. That is why online if you go to hand history after a few players go to showdown and a few muck their hand, in hand history it will show you what they had
 
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jeffred1111

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It is quite possible that the op has misremembered the situation, or misinterpreted it at least. It could be that the hand was checked down as opposed to a bet and fold, and thus anyone in the hand IS entitled to see any of the other players cards (just like you can go peek in the hand history on line, even though the losing player "mucked" the hand). Or, it's possible that the dealer was just joking around, and it was misinterpreted it as serious.

Depends on the casino and this rule (I want to see the hand mucked) is NOT for free info, it's to prevent collusion, so using it extensively is bad etiquette. In this spot, did the "winner" muck before being awarded the chips ?
 
K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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Depends on the casino and this rule (I want to see the hand mucked) is NOT for free info, it's to prevent collusion, so using it extensively is bad etiquette. In this spot, did the "winner" muck before being awarded the chips ?

Probably. I do not recall that. I would ass-u-me that he mucked the cards to the dealer and then the dealer pushed the chip, as it typically happens. I don't usually see the chip push from the dealer, then a muck of cards.

As for collusion, that makes sense. So, all mucked cards could be shown (after a hand) if requested?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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From Robert's Rules of Poker:
Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

In this case the river bet was not called so the dealer should have kept his/her mouth shut.
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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Probably. I do not recall that. I would ass-u-me that he mucked the cards to the dealer and then the dealer pushed the chip, as it typically happens. I don't usually see the chip push from the dealer, then a muck of cards.

As for collusion, that makes sense. So, all mucked cards could be shown (after a hand) if requested?


In fact you should never surrender your hand until the dealer pushes you the pot, it falls under the rule of "protecting your hand". Live poker tip everyone: don't muck your hand until you get the pot !!

________________________________

Not sure why this is so hard to understand regarding what cards you are allowed to see at the end, but I think this sums it up:

From Robert's Rules of Poker:
Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

In this case the river bet was not called so the dealer should have kept his/her mouth shut.

So again, I think you either
1. misremembered the call, in which case the dealer should have turned the requested hand over (after tapping it to the muck to kill it if requested by someone other than the winner) for everyone to see (not simply announcing what the hands were after peaking), or

2. misinterpreted the dealer as being serious. In any case, I just find it hard to believe that a trained dealer would do such a thing. Even if he was joking it's pretty close to unprofessional behavior, especially if it wasn't clear (obviously not) that he was kidding around.
 
K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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So again, I think you either
1. misremembered the call, in which case the dealer should have turned the requested hand over (after tapping it to the muck to kill it if requested by someone other than the winner) for everyone to see (not simply announcing what the hands were after peaking), or

Winner bet out, loser folded. Winner... "won". I do not know if the pot was shoved yet, but the dealer for sure did not turn the cards over for all to see. He tilted it up and called out the rank of the supposed pair, then shoved them back into the muck and continued. Then someone asked what the loser had and he stated a pair higher (calling out the actual rank). He said "I saw them as he mucked them."

2. misinterpreted the dealer as being serious. In any case, I just find it hard to believe that a trained dealer would do such a thing. Even if he was joking it's pretty close to unprofessional behavior, especially if it wasn't clear (obviously not) that he was kidding around.

Maybe he was kidding/lied about both hands, in which case both winner/loser may not care. However, if it were my hand I would still be a little ticked off that he said anything. Especially if he made it sound like the winner would have lost had the loser called.

I just find it hard to believe that a trained dealer would do such a thing.

I don't drink at a casino and rarely at home, so I was pretty 'level' headed and was sure about what I heard, which is why I was kind of shocked that the dealer said anything. As a dealer, I would think you should either keep quite or say "you have to ask him (winner)" or something of that nature if anything at all.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Any idea if the dealer knew the players? I know at our local casino a lot of players are on a first-name basis with most of the dealers and while it's not 100% strictly 'professional', I can see something like this happening as a joke between a dealer and some players that know each other.
 
K_Kahne_Fan

K_Kahne_Fan

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Any idea if the dealer knew the players? I know at our local casino a lot of players are on a first-name basis with most of the dealers and while it's not 100% strictly 'professional', I can see something like this happening as a joke between a dealer and some players that know each other.

I was only there for the weekend, so that is a very likely option.
 
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