Blocked, banned and plundered

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coolex

Guest
I've been playing at pacific poker the last 6 months or so. Just the other day I got kicked out while I was playing a sit&go-game.. Trying to log back in, it said the username no longer existed.. A fem minutes later I've got an e-mail that told me I was kicked out because they suspected collusion.
I had about 4000 usd on my account, after having won some 10kg's gntd and made ft at 50kg gntd a few weeks ago.
I've sent them 4 e-mails trying to get a specific reason why I got kicked out, but haven't got any explanation.
I've tried to figure out why I got kicked out, and I guess I've found a "reason".
I don't have a bankaccount that's these days, as I'm moving to another country to work, and is closing my account in my homecountry at the moment.
So for that reason I "transferred" some money to my much trusted friend to use his bankaccount to cash out some money. Pacific poker doesn't provide a "buddytransfer" or a gift-function different from many other sites, so we ended up sitting down at hu-tables to transfer a little amount of my winnings.
I had no idea that this would be a problem, as this wouldn't involve anyone else.. But now I can see that this is what's beeing called chipdump, and is not legal at most sites.. I've been extremely stupid and clumsy, but I never meant to do any illegal.. Have anyone been in the same position? Do I have any rights or can they just say they suspect collison and take all your money?

Any feedback would be much appreciated
icon_smile.gif



regards,

kristian
 
BKrywko1

BKrywko1

Rock Star
Not to come to a rash judgement here, but every other instance that I've seen where a poster has made a post like that claiming that the poker room is ripping him off, the poster has been guilty of chip-dumping or collusion.

C'mon, this is something that's against the T&Cs of every poker site on the Internet - stop being stuck on stupid, and don't chip-dump!
 
Beriac

Beriac

Guest
Out of curiousity, generally speaking, what is the nefarious reason to engage in chip dumping? Is it a money laundering thing or something else? Is it related to collusion?
 
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coolex

Guest
Call me stupid, but what do you earn by doing that? You only loose money in rake, a regular deposit through your account would be a lot cheaper, wouldn't it? Can someone explain to me what the idea is?
But I'd rather get some constructive feedback to help me out..
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

Cardschat Elite
Don't have an answer but

I would like to know what the problem is with doing this on a heads up table. I can see at a ring game you can't just fold to someone you know or raise all in with crap but heads up?

I know of people who have done this. Heck I have thought about before to loan someone some money online. Guess I am glad I never did.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
From Pacific's T&C

(v) Chip-Dumping: Chip-dumping occurs when any player deliberately loses a hand in order to deliberately transfer his chips to another player who is in partnership with him. Any player who chip-dumps or attempts to chip-dump with any other player while using the Service may be permanently banned from using the Service or the Software or any other related services of the Company and their account may be terminated immediately. In such circumstances the Company will be under no obligation to refund to you any funds that may be in your account at such time.

...surely the problem sites have with chip dumping even on a HU cash table should be glaringly obvious to everyone?
 
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coolex

Guest
Lo-Dog: Thx, that's exactly my point.
And every penny I made on that site comes from tournaments involving at least some hundred players, that makes it so unreasonable to just block my account and say they suspect collusion.. Extremely frustrating to start all over again, if I am to.. and with a fear that this could happen if I ever was to get a decent roll again..
 
Beriac

Beriac

Guest
If the problem they're trying to prevent is illicit money transfers, then I see the problem they'd have no matter the table or setting.

If the problem is collusion, then I don't get it from a heads up perspective.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Well they probably phrased their mail badly, this is Pacific support we're talking about.
 
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coolex

Guest
Dorkus: Yes, I have to admit I didn't read the t&c very accurate before I started playing. I can see that there's no room for interpretatation of the rules.. But I still believe the purpose of this rule is to prevent that ppl take benefit of chip-dumping while playing with other players.. And I think that banning and confiscating my account is quite a harsh and trivial way of reacting, althought it's very beneficial to them..
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
Surely you need to collude to chip-dump, but it's all semantics. What is the issue is that anyone in this situation deserves everything they get in my opinion.

In 99.9% of times it is quite simply because they do not register their correct name and address when they sign up (for hundreds of different reasons which I wont bother going into). Then when they come to cashing out they get themselves into ridiculous situations.

Whatever lame excuse someone invents why they cant cash out it is inevitably for this reason.

To any new players reading.....Just register your correct details in the first place.
 
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coolex

Guest
Ok, I see your point, but in my case there's not one. I registered with correct name and address. I've used my account to deposit and cashout a lot of times, last time a month ago. But my move to sweden and closing of my bankaccount in norway is actual..
 
Beriac

Beriac

Guest
Ok I am nit-picking at this point but I am sincerely curious, not trying to be argumentative:

I understand that chip-dumping in a heads up game is by its technical definition collusion, but if there's collusion between 2 players and they're the only ones in the game, who cares?

If I make a bet with my friend that we can each be the one to lose a SNG and we fire up a game at poker stars and we're each trying to play crappily, does that count? Or only if just one of us tries to lose?

I get it in any kind of full table setting (or any table with more than the colluders/chip-dumbers). But if I want to play heads up and lose on purpose, that's ok as long as the beneficiary is ignorant of it? What's the dilly yo?
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
Out of their 8 cashout options, you couldnt find one?

Does Sweden not have bank accounts that accept checks/bank drafts?
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
Ok I am nit-picking at this point but I am sincerely curious, not trying to be argumentative:

I understand that chip-dumping in a heads up game is by its technical definition collusion, but if there's collusion between 2 players and they're the only ones in the game, who cares?

If I make a bet with my friend that we can each be the one to lose a SNG and we fire up a game at Poker Stars and we're each trying to play crappily, does that count? Or only if just one of us tries to lose?

I get it in any kind of full table setting (or any table with more than the colluders/chip-dumbers). But if I want to play heads up and lose on purpose, that's ok as long as the beneficiary is ignorant of it? What's the dilly yo?

Man A steals credit card details & makes a deposit. Dumps chips on Man B (who he is in cahoots with). Man B cashes out. It's a problem thats for sure.
 
Beriac

Beriac

Guest
Man A steals credit card details & makes a deposit. Dumps chips on Man B (who he is in cahoots with). Man B cashes out. It's a problem thats for sure.

Thanks. Obviously I agree with this. I was wondering if there was a poker-related reason for this (in the case of collusion, it's an issue of fairness), rather than being a money laundering thing as I brought up in my post up above.
 
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coolex

Guest
Well of course there is, but there are quite a number of formalities you'll have to go through when you're moving and start to work in a different country..
But I did not post this thread to defend a various of accusations, I was hoping for some constructive feedback that could help me out in this situation, I do believe some other players must have experienced the same thing.
I'd also think it'd be in the interest of every player to feel that they have some legal rights when playing these sites, and not risk having their account closed and confiscated all of sudden. I did not break the rules intentionally, and no innocent third part was harmed by what I did.
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
I think you'd be very lucky to get the money back. You broke the rules you agreed to when you signed up.

Might, sadly be a case of writing the money off.
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
Thanks. Obviously I agree with this. I was wondering if there was a poker-related reason for this (in the case of collusion, it's an issue of fairness), rather than being a money laundering thing as I brought up in my post up above.

In a word, no.

(I'm sure most of us do it all the time...maybe without knowing it :) )
 
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coolex

Guest
Ok, welly. Np.
But still I don't even know if this is the reason why I got kicked out, since all they do is sending me an e-mail where they say they suspected collusion.
The "hu-transfer" happened like 12 days ago, and I got banned just two days ago.. Does it usually take that long, anyone who knows?
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
They have collusion software for this exact reason. Once it flags dubious betting patterns etc, then someone personally will go through the hands flagged. Once they are absolutely sure there is a problem, then you are gone.
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Awards
1
Just curious was this a "Large" amount of money that was dumped ?

Ive done it before on ***poker, and never had any problems, having said that it was only once and in the region of $50. The reason, no player transfers, and id just transfered $$ to a stars account for them.
 
Welly

Welly

Guest
There are numerous things which the software looks for, one of the most obvious is fold equity. If you duck out of a hand with absolutely no fold equity, and esp. doing it a few times to same person....then you are going to get flagged.

What I mean by this is....(for example) raising to $199, then fold for the $1....there is obviously absolutely no fold equity here and therefore it is virtually always suspect if someone does it.
 
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