BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (&cliff notes)

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PC69

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Far be it from me. How were Greg's actions questionable or suspicious? He ran up some money from being someone capable of playing cards at a high level. I understand poker sites being security savvy and making sure they maintain that for every player. But to not release HH? Accuse a player with no evidence? Do this same thing to other players? This site is less than credible to say the least. They did try to take a players money. I dont see many ways around that.
 
Pascal-lf

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Okay guys - not saying BOL handled this in the best possible way - but as SOON as Cardschat contacted them on this issue it was immediately resolved in his favor.

And yes - that was BOL who made the post in this thread. That was less than 24 hours after we asked our rep to intervene and see if this could get resolved.

At a minimum Greg's actions were suspicious - any poker site would have frozen the funds and investigated. There should have been better communication with Greg and hopefully going forward they will do better in that area.

The important thing is that they have now done the right thing and given him access to his funds.

i wish i could support this but there's just too much that has gone wrong...

what you said is completely misleading - any site would have frozen his funds and investigated? they not only investigated but found "evidence" which they didn't bother to share with anyone despite promises to do so, but apparently this "evidence" which entitled them to seize $60k due to collusion is so poor that after 24 hours they gave him his money back?

i find it unbelievable that cardschat is putting the profit it makes from affiliating before the safety of its members
 
Debi

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Yes - I do believe that if a person did exactly what he did that most if not all sites would conduct some kind of investigation before releasing the funds. Sounds pretty standard to me and I have been around long enough to know sites have done things like that plenty of times.

I stated that I agree they handled it poorly. Communication was poor from what I have read and there is no reason hand histories could not have been released.

I have not read the emails - the attachment I tried to view I could not see.

I read bits and pieces of the threads he posted at other sites - not everyone had zero doubt that he had not done anything wrong. (Or at least that an investigation was not warranted).

I don't have time nor do I intend to read every single thing involved with this.

The staff here has been discussing this - so far not one member of staff has suggested that based on this incident CC should pull all BOL advertising.

However we are still discussing it - the discussion just started in the last few days. We don't all live in this thread 24 hours a day. I find it unbelievable that long term members would accuse us of not caring for the safety of our members while we try to have a discussion about it. :(
 
Pascal-lf

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admittedly the time period was only a week - for some reason i thought it was longer

even so, if you are having a discussion about it then why post something which seems complete? if you are still discussing it, fair enough, and i apologise for my final statement, but there was no indication of that in your post
 
Debi

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admittedly the time period was only a week - for some reason i thought it was longer

even so, if you are having a discussion about it then why post something which seems complete? if you are still discussing it, fair enough, and i apologise for my final statement, but there was no indication of that in your post

It doesn't sound complete to me - I just didn't want you guys to think this thread was being ignored - so stated some of what we have discussed so far.

But all is well. :)

Just give us some time - I am the only member of the staff who lives here hehe.:p

The rest of them have jobs and families so discussions like this can take a bit of time.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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My main issue is the same issue as I have whenever an issue like this arises on a poker forum - if someone were in OP's position but didn't know that poker forums where his grievances could be aired existed then there is basically a 0% chance that he would have received his money by now (or whenever he actually does receive it), and only a small chance that he would ever receive it at all. Poker forums should never be a necessary tool in the withdrawal of funds.

As a new poker platform we believe it is essential to maintain the utmost security in our systems for the safety of our players and to conform to the regulatory obligations of our license. It’s not a fast process but ultimately it is the fairest.

Investigations of this sort should be a swift and decisive process and the party being investigated should be kept updated and provided with a timescale for the completion of the investigation, especially when this much money is involved, and furthermore the site should be as close to 100% certain as possible that some form of cheating has taken place before taking any decision to seize funds. Whether what OP did "looked suspicious" or not is irrelevant when the site has access to hand histories and (presumably) competent investigators to look through them.

I'm not even going to touch on the fact that TC was seemingly never told that the investigation was still ongoing past the first instance of him being informed - instead he was kept 'up to date' with a hilariously tragic mixture of "you're fine take your money" and "you've been cheating we're seizing your money"

Hiding behind licensing seems incredibly disingenuous because all sites are subject to the same or at least very similar licensing conditions and there are plenty of sites around who are able to conduct swift investigations, or are at least able to communicate with the party under investigation and provide them with timescales and reasons for delays.

I read bits and pieces of the threads he posted at other sites - not everyone had zero doubt that he had not done anything wrong. (Or at least that an investigation was not warranted).

Internet forum people don't have access to the information BO did though, and internet forum people aren't (presumably) trained collusion/fraud/whatever investigators.

I do think BOL deserve a chance to put a case forward and explain how/why they screwed up and how they're going to stop this sort of thing from happening again, but it needs to be a hell of a lot better than the canned response they've just given ITT. Here's some of the questions I think they need to address directly (I haven't read any of the threads elsewhere so forgive me if any of these have been addressed). Obviously any questions about their exact investigation process are out of bounds, much as I think we'd all like to ask them.

- Why did TC have to initiate discussion with you to find out he was being 'investigated'? Why was he not notified immediately?

- Why was TC given misleading and even completely incorrect information on numerous occasions? What sort of communication was taking place (if any) between your investigation department and the front-line support who were talking to TC?

- Why did you claim that a month's worth of hand histories is "too massive" to send when I could request five years worth of hand histories from pokerstars and receive them within 15 minutes? Why were the 'cheating' HHs never sent?

- What exactly has happened at your end between the conclusion of the first investigation where it was decided, presumably beyond any reasonable doubt, that TC had cheated, and now, when he's getting his money back?

As far as any advertising goes, my personal point of view (as someone who just deletes and moves posts every now and then and has nothing to do with advertising on the site :p) is that we should give BOL a week or so to come back with a far more complete statement, and depending on whether or not that is forthcoming and satisfactory, move from there.
 
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PotluckXXI

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Actually it's easy for any site to withhold funds for any reason they deem, there is just not any real oversite on them. I don't know who they are "affiliated" with or who is the "over-seeing" authority, in any circumstance THEY are the ones who put money into the pockets of those "authorities" so BO will have all the leeway the want in dealing with individual players and disputes. The only real course of action is litigation in the jurisdiction that BO is in, and also their parent company and/or overseeing authority. This is tricky because some overseas sites will choose a place that has lax laws that cannot or will not be enforced in the courts. I really feel for you but you are facing an uphill battle and for $65k is one most attorneys will be unwilling to fight unless you can show other damages (like cost of legal fees, psychological damage, etc). Now if you make enough stink about it for them then they may release your money.
 
PC69

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. I find it unbelievable that long term members would accuse us of not caring for the safety of our members while we try to have a discussion about it. :(

Let it be known that I did not have any idea of a conversation and even if I did, I believe this site to be a cheat. After many many hours of reading different threads on people who have been cheated and this one, I find the poker site to be really misleading and scandalous.

I never once doubted CC caring about us as members. I just believe this site is not one we should support. They are very clearly a bad poker room for us to associate with. There traffic is low and I'd imagine we could survive without promoting them.

My comments were nothing personal and I know I dont have to defend myself. Iam just pointing this out. I dont think its personal with any of us. I think BOP has portrayed themselves for what they are, and I think (personally) that CC should part ways with them. DM said it best IMO
 
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ZODECI

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Let's see if OP actually gets PAID.
*** just read on 2+2 he got paid 8k so far...


Still, I think this room is flaky.
 
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Jurn8

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My main issue is the same issue as I have whenever an issue like this arises on a poker forum - if someone were in OP's position but didn't know that poker forums where his grievances could be aired existed then there is basically a 0% chance that he would have received his money by now (or whenever he actually does receive it), and only a small chance that he would ever receive it at all. Poker forums should never be a necessary tool in the withdrawal of funds.
this
Obviously they thought shit this is going to damage our rep, oh woops too late as the internet/forum is a pretty powerful thing these days!
 
Debi

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We have contacted BOL and will give them an opportunity to respond to this thread (in more detail than before) and particularly to the points DM has mentioned above.
 
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Eddie Leeway

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After reading this as well as a few other complaints posted about the difficulties getting paid from BetOnline I decided to close my account.

I've heard of others trying to collect just a few hundred dollars, and getting nothing but the run-around.....The software sucks as well*

Even though I'm just playing freerolls and built small bankrolls on a few sites I closed the account simply because I don't wish to spend time with a site that isn't going to pay out in the end.
 
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Eddie Leeway

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UPDATE:
[COLOR=#000000! important]I just spoke with Tommy on the phone who was the manager in charge of this situation apparently. He seemed like a nice guy and he genuinely cared about what happened. When I logged in this morning I saw I had lost my $1300 tennis bet and asked him about their rollover requirement. He claims, which I really hope is the truth, that even though I recieved no bonuses at all that in order to withdrawal you still have to match the amount of your deposit in sports bets. (Not sure the right way to phrase this as I know nothing about rollovers or sports betting) They did not offer me any kind of compensation and I thought it would be nice if they would atleast offer to cover my $1300 sports bet loss in order to try and get me to stay with them but they did not. I am glad I am getting my money atleast but can say I do not think there is any way I would ever play at BetOnline again. I will be requesting my first $15,000 wire today and will give updates in this thread of when I get it.[/COLOR]

I still don't plan on playing with them anymore....

My nest payout was over 5 years ago with party poker for $3500 after placing 52nd in a $1 Million Gauranteed (played and won 2 satellite SnG's). It was a $10 satellite which got me into the game ($600 buy-in)

They paid me out in a matter of days(as it should be). The thought of winning again and having to go through what you did would make me crazy. It shouldn't happen in the first place.

I'm glad you got paid, but there are plenty of other sites to play so I'm done with B-O and their crappy-assed software....its obvious to me they paid you because the integrity of the site is riding. Its a good thing you went to as many chat rooms as you did to let everyone know because if there's anything more disgusting is a gambling/game site that doesn't honor payouts(just like a cheap, scumbag bookie, imo)

Kudos to you*
 
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Greg242

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UPDATE: I have been contacted by the director of operations and spoke with her on Monday. They promised to expedite all of my wires due to my situation occuring and apologized multiple times.
My first wire of $15,000 I requested on Friday hit my account on Monday so they did expedite it for sure. I requested another $15,000 on Monday and it was processed today so I am assuming I will get it tomorrow. Will continue to update when I recieve wires.

BTW whoever said I got paid $8000 that was not me that was Jamin Stokes posting in my thread as this same issue occured to him as I mentioned this earlier.
 
naruto_miu

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Well congrats Greg, and I'm happy truly for you
 
prepare

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I really don't want to make this in a political issue but...

I have not posted in a while and my comment can be easily deleted.

So with that, I am going to derail this conversation just a little bit

Should online poker be legalized (in America)? Obviously, as a poker community, the answer is going to be Yes. However poker sites are not regulated, they do what the want and how the want it. The can screw the common man, as the have done before, and will do again, and without regulation it leaves people with only one defense, and that is the forums. If a poker site will only investigate because of public uproar and not because its the right thing to do, then poker is not yet ready to be legalized.

Now, as for the banner, I say keep it. Your a business and having more money is always good, it's not like they stole the money on purpose, and you should give them the benefit of the doubt if they did because there is no proof otherwise. Mob rule should not win.

forgive my spelling and grammar mistakes.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Is it just me that doesn't have a clue what anyone is going on about with this Bet-online banner? What page is this on CC?
 
WVHillbilly

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It's at the top of this very page.
 
darkassassin89

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betonline-poker900.gif


this lol
 
Cafeman

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Is it just me that doesn't have a clue what anyone is going on about with this Bet-online banner? What page is this on CC?
I see a Pokerstars banner. so it's most likely geotargeted.
 
TakinOver

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Hope you get get your $$$$$!! Thanks 4 info...I will not join there and spread the word...Very crazy that they dont save HHs, or not let you track it!!! INSANE
 
darkassassin89

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Maybe it is Geotargeted :) I dont see no more stars haha Darn USA!
 
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BlueNowhere

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Yea that must be it, I just have a stars one on every page and had no idea what everyone was going on about.
 
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Greg242

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UPDATE: I recieved my second $15,000 wire on November 30th. I wll be requesting my third wire tomorrow because the limit is two per week.
 
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