PokerStars Changes to Rake, Spin & Go Prizes, and Battle of the Planets

[LD1977]

Most corporate acquisitions are done above market value, that means nothing and is not worth repeating ad nauseam.

All that is important is the timeline of recouping an investment and that depends on the strategy of the buyer. Risk of ruin is pretty much zero at the moment for reasons already stated.

With neutral strategy (= nothing changes) after 10 years you have a very good earning asset. pokerstars has such brand strength that they are in zero danger of being overtaken as far as global online market goes.

Now, obviously, they think they can attack the customers right now and squeeze even more profit out of them (like, 40% is not enough? ). Will that cost them long term? I think not really. As soon as a competitor tries to take advantage they can easily outspend them entry barriers FTW.

I argued before that PS can do whatever they want since they have all the advantages and am still sticking to that opinion.

 

[S3mper]

^^^ That's just because I haven't come out with my new poker site yet!

 

[magicius]

greedy bastards :ridinghor

 

[S3mper]

Wow and it gets worse...

Update:

Amaya is making yet another change. All members must sign away their first born child before making any withdraws..

I personally think that they are doing this because they hope that players love their children enough to not withdraw money off their site.

If you don't have children you are suppose to give them your hands... which also makes it more difficult to withdraw, but not impossible that'll be the method I choose


Edit: Just a FYI my new site won't have these changes

 

[CactusCat]

I started playing online poker after Black Friday. I always wondered what it would've been like had PokerStars and FullTilt remained in the US, and kept up to date on their return to states. Now I'm not sure I even want them here.

What kind of implications does this have on the online poker market? A gradual shift to other sites that don't rape players with rake as bad? Or do they have an iron fist monopoly for the foreseeable future?

 

[LD1977]

Iron fist and other sites know it.

Basically if anyone threatens PS they will just back off a bit, do some promotions, do some marketing etc. and that is that. How can you compete with 400 million in yearly profits (and that will jump to about 600-700 million because of player inertia in short term)?

 

[Gorak]

To my knowledge PokerStars and FullTilt are the only sites that can withstand heavy traffic. PokerStars can start tournaments with close to 300,000 players. At 888 Poker, starting a tournament with 15,000 players brings the site to a stall and disconnections are frequent.

So unless Amaya (PokerStars, FullTilt) get real competition, they can dictate the rules. If they keep taking bad decisions, I think some players will just quit poker and find another hobby.

With Amaya controlling, poker is in bad shape right now.

 

[fubarcdn]

spin and go's will breath new life into a stagnant market.
New players will start with Spin and Go's and realize that they are expensive to play and move onto either Sit and Go's or ring games.
They are the equivalent to candy cigarettes leading to smokers.
To thrive online poker needs new ways to get new players who will fuel the market. The dropout rate is fairly high because it is not easy to be a profitable player. I am speaking from experience.

 

[A2345Razz]

Spin and Go's will breath new life into a stagnant market.
New players will start with Spin and Go's and realize that they are expensive to play and move onto either Sit and Go's or ring games.
They are the equivalent to candy cigarettes leading to smokers.
To thrive online poker needs new ways to get new players who will fuel the market. The dropout rate is fairly high because it is not easy to be a profitable player. I am speaking from experience.

People aren't signing up in droves to go play a lottery with a hyper at the end at a poker site. Now, that doesn't mean spin N fails have no place in the poker economy, I actually think they do. But to say Spin N Rakes pull people into the site; I think that is ridiculous. If someone wants a table game, they needn't come to Stars. Stars is synonymous with POKER. Now perhaps we are seeing a shift away from that, and that is what many of us are afraid of.

.....Then doesn't it make sense to make winning at the micros easier not harder like the current rake hike will demonstably do?

 

[LD1977]

Yup. More rake = less winners = more quitters and they quit quicker.

 

[A2345Razz]

Yup. More rake = less winners = more quitters and they quit quicker.

Also, more rake means not only less winners, BUT A LOT FEWER folks who can DELUDE themselves into thinking they only went broke because of an unlucky run. People get to play longer, and so they also get more value for their money.

That is why I am at such a loss as to the reaction by SOME CC posters here.

These things affect the whole poker playing community online and offline. Pokerstars has been the largest pokeroom on earth for a long time and used to be/is? the gold standard in the industry.

When they start a cash grab like it appears they may be starting...one with no real regard for the health of the game and/or the longterm viability of online poker, we all should be concerned.

 

[LD1977]

I assume they will try doing reload bonuses with clearance requirements to make people put more "dead money" on the site (= money that is hard to clear and withdraw a profit).

 

[mendiolacubicle]

I'm just hoping that these changes will be beneficial to both players and the company in the long run. Just imagine online poker without PokerStars.

I'm sure that these changes will have an impact regarding the service, maintanance and over-all experience.

Goodluck to all of us! 😊😊😊

 

[fletchdad]

I don't necessarily disagree with you.

Those who believed their beloved Pokerstars could do no wrong are getting what they have coming to them.

I get the irritation, but PS did a lot for the online poker image when it was at its worst. I dont think this harsh statement directed at players "getting what is coming to them" is fair or justified. Stars provided the best conditions for players in most areas for a long time.

Now, however, that is changing. But to blame the players is simply pointing the gun at the wrong party.

Maybe this will be an incentive for another site to really decide to offer some attractive competition. The players are ready to show stars how they feel. The sitouts and w/e that players want to do to punish stars will probably be about as effective as they have always been. Meaning not at all. But a massive players flocking to another site, now, that would get some attention.

I dont really see it happening, but that is the only way to implement change of any type IMHO.

I'm just seeing that these changes will be beneficial only the company in the long run. 😊😊😊

FYP

 

[magicius]

If you take a closer look why people play @stars...
Huge mtt fields that are very tough to beat? Micro stakes that are infested with regs? Most of people play either cause they like software, or they follow mass and they see how many players play @stars... (talking about novice players here..)
What most of people love also is that games start anytime...
Now with these changes novice players will never notice what have been changed...
Did i ever participated in battle of planets? No...
Do i play Spin? No...
Do i play games affected with rake? No...

And i belive many more players wouldnt see changes...

 

[magicius]

Most of playerbase doesnt care about changes...
If other rooms improve their software i recon they would have more players, for example i really love how carbon looks

 

[A2345Razz]

I assume they will try doing reload bonuses with clearance requirements to make people put more "dead money" on the site (= money that is hard to clear and withdraw a profit).

Id actually be for Amaya lowering some of their effective rake back/ promos to high volume players (BoP/SN/SNE) and diverting that capital to regular smaller/mid volume rewards which will help the average rec enjoy the game longer and feel like they get more value for their dollar.

So it is hardly a matter of a few pro rake back grinders of 2p2 who want everying to be set up for themselves....

I'm just hoping that these changes will be beneficial to both players and the company in the long run. Just imagine online poker without PokerStars.

I'm sure that these changes will have an impact regarding the service, maintanance and over-all experience.

Goodluck to all of us! 😊😊😊

How have the additions of casino games worked out at FTP???

Maybe you should ask yourself what Amaya has done with that previously very valuable commodity before blindly trusting a publicly traded corporation to help the poker ecosystem. Changes are needed, and maybe an increase in net rake might be part of that for some games, but those monies need to be reinvested in getting/retaining new players, not pocketed by Amaya to look good on a spreadsheet in order for online poker to grow not shrink as it is presently.

Spin & Go .. Wtf.. This is sh'it of tour..

Ya, I don't get what kind of mindless chimp want to play a uber hyper after doing a scratch off ......not my cup of tea either. Folks, if you just want to gamble to gamble, go to the races....their more fun and you get outside.

 

[curtinsea]

I get the irritation, but PS did a lot for the online poker image when it was at its worst. I dont think this harsh statement directed at players "getting what is coming to them" is fair or justified. Stars provided the best conditions for players in most areas for a long time.

Now, however, that is changing. But to blame the players is simply pointing the gun at the wrong party.

Maybe this will be an incentive for another site to really decide to offer some attractive competition. The players are ready to show stars how they feel. The sitouts and w/e that players want to do to punish stars will probably be about as effective as they have always been. Meaning not at all. But a massive players flocking to another site, now, that would get some attention.

I dont really see it happening, but that is the only way to implement change of any type IMHO.

You found my point, even if you felt it was a harsh attack on the players themselves, and apparently agree. Pokerstars is able to take advantage of the brand loyalty they enjoy, and really don't need to do much in the way of expanding market share. They have the market share now, and can now exploit it. It is the loyalty of those players that makes it possible.

In short, unless players are willing, and able, to move on to another site, and in large numbers, Pokerstars does not need to be responsive to the players. In that sense, it is up to the players to either accept what Pokerstars gives them, or move on to another site. And in that sense, it is on the players.

 

[fletchdad]

You found my point, even if you felt it was a harsh attack on the players themselves, and apparently agree. Pokerstars is able to take advantage of the brand loyalty they enjoy, and really don't need to do much in the way of expanding market share. They have the market share now, and can now exploit it. It is the loyalty of those players that makes it possible.

In short, unless players are willing, and able, to move on to another site, and in large numbers, Pokerstars does not need to be responsive to the players. In that sense, it is up to the players to either accept what Pokerstars gives them, or move on to another site. And in that sense, it is on the players.

No, I do get what you are saying. I just felt that the players are not as much to blame as the state of the online poker industry is.

Of course players flock to stars. Their image was GOD of online sites after Black Friday. They offered RB players great incentive to play, and newbies as well. They have also done some dickish stuff along the way, but for the most part, the loyalty shown by players was deserved in the big picture of what online poker is. Stars were never a charity, nor were they in the biz of making the player rich. They were, however, a major contender and they did deliver.

The changes now are pretty unfriendly to the online poker community, and it seems that the new "leadership" is walking softly and carrying a big stick. Not cool. I just didnt think the comment "the players are getting what they deserve" was on the money, since stars was the best all round site out there, for newbies as well as pros. There are many reasons why I believe this statement to be true, and none of them have to do with me being a fanboy. But, as a player, we look for what we want and need, and stars offered a lot. Stable software (not so now, from what I have been reading), game selection, RB opportunity, games in every stake, etc.....

That, however, seems to be changing. NOW, it is on the players. But they are not necessarily responsible for a management decision that take players wants and needs and ignores them.

As I said, NOW, it is on the players. BUT, they need an alternative that works.

If I had an extra few hundred million, I would so be on this shit...............

 

[theRaven68]

PokerStars will not be the same again due to ownership change. but it is all normal and the new owner want to increase profit.

 

[badalhoco345]

I'm not in sintony with this new changes. I'm sure that is another way to those responsables wins more Money (specially with the rake changes and with Spin & Go). They will not kill the Pokerstars but it's a try.

 

[Luan]

Spin & Go treacherous little game.
PokerStars RIP ..

this spin & go and a game in my point of view and not nessecario staying and playing for that game of chance in poker

 

[corrupted15]

Sucks for me. I play hyper HU sngs. And the traffic is way worse and games have gotten way tougher. Now even the 30's have cartels. Last week a 100$ reg sat me, cause he needed volume
Spin and go's for me are only good for me to go off and donk a little bit when I'm tilting

 

[Poker Orifice]

If I had an extra few hundred million, I would so be on this shit...............

Why don't we call up Guy Laliberte & give him some thoughts/ideas & get this happening!?!?
idk maybe 'Sun Circle Poker' or ' Full Drop Poker '

charge 5% rake/fee on SNG's & Tourneys at all buyin levels and watch it go crazy.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Or maybe Lederer & Ferguson... surely they've got a few bucks put away for startup costs. Ferguson prolly has some good ideas for the software.