Phil Ivey Suing Crockfords Casino for £7.8M

[FastOne]

The only way they shouldnt pay him is if they could prove he had inside information from someone who worked for the card manufacturer.

If that's the case, I think they would probably sue him, not just avoid paying him.

 

[OzExorcist]

Read the article and if this is true and the cards had a flaw and he noticed it, how can that be reason to withheld the money he won? I mean, he didn't brought the cards to the Casino to play with them, the Casino provided these cards, so that's not cheating, that's just a the mistake of the Casino (they should have checked the cards). In any case the Casino could sue the cards manufactures to try to make them pay for Ivey's win.

blackjack card counters aren't technically "cheating" but they still get kicked out and banned from casinos around the world. People have to remember that casinos have different ideas about rules and natural justice to the rest of the civilised world.

If the story is accurate then Ivey's "offence" falls into much the same category. And (again) if the story is accurate then the fact that he brought someone with him who was experienced in this kind of advantage play (and had been banned from other casinos for it) suggests that this was probably premeditated.

FWIW I find it pretty difficult to believe that Ivey would have used this method over the space of two long sessions without the casino noticing what was going on. If it was just an hour, maybe. But these were supposed to be long sessions. And if the Daily Mail can find out about this method then casino security, whose job it is to know about this stuff and look out for it, should have been able to spot it.

The whole thing is weird if you ask me.

 

[FastOne]

Blackjack card counters aren't technically "cheating" but they still get kicked out and banned from casinos around the world. People have to remember that casinos have different ideas about rules and natural justice to the rest of the civilised world.

If the story is accurate then Ivey's "offence" falls into much the same category. And (again) if the story is accurate then the fact that he brought someone with him who was experienced in this kind of advantage play (and had been banned from other casinos for it) suggests that this was probably premeditated.

But, one thing is to ban someone from entering a Casino for counting cards (or anything similar that would give him/her an advantage), and another is not paying him/her. They could ban Ivey from playing there again, but would still have to pay him, IMO.

 

[OzExorcist]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you - if it really happened the way the article suggests, and if the casino was stupid enough to make this mistake and let someone get away with using this system for this long then it's their own stupid fault and they should pay up.

But I'm just saying that casinos don't always work the same was as the rest of the civilised world, so we can't necessarily expect them to behave in the ways normal people would expect...

 

[bnasp2]

Actually "card counting" is banned by law in couple of US states. (you know, casino lobby)
I think that in UK, there is not such law. So court decission could make first precedent for such cases.

 

[OzExorcist]

But even in places where it's not banned by law, it's still common for casinos to bar card counters and other advantage players. Doesn't seem to matter whether it's "right" or not.

 

[inflnlte]

I feel like Ivey won't get his money - maybe some of it. Its the casinos fault and Ivey should get the $$$.

 

[arahel_jazz]

It was on the national news this morning... interesting, the casino has chosen to try to smear Ivey and vilify him in the public eye. That way the casino can claim righteousness in not paying him...

Sucks.

 

[RiverOfDreamz]

Arahel, do you know what network you saw the segment on? I'd like to find it online and see how they treated the story.

 

[inflnlte]

On CBS... here's the link:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...asino-for-winnings-after-cheating-accusation/

 

[masondub]

So im guessing there were a bunch of decks of cards that had the same flaw? How can they prove that first of all, when Phil Ivey was playing the game at the casino that the cards he was playing with had a flaw. And secondly, How can they prove that he noticed the flaw?

For all we know they could have just had a bunch of flawed decks of cards that they were saving for a rainy day and they found their chance with Phil Ivey. Sounds unrealistic I know but this whole story is just a bunch of accusations and I cant wait to see what happens with this.

The girl being with Phil Ivey is what really gets me though... Maybe he did cheat the casino or maybe he was just trying to get some booty, the world may never know xD

 

[Ranny]

Another article, also looking forward to the outcome.

http://www.sunherald.com/2013/05/15/4666743/uk-casino-accuses-us-poker-star.html

 

[Nick]

Will he be allowed to make high stakes bets again at any casinos except the few in Vegas that know him exceptionally well? Unlikely...

 

[SicKBeATz]

That's what I was thinking, this scandal definitely seems like it will kill a lot of his action regardless of outcome.
Hope he's been working on his golf game

 

[djrose]

Wow. that's just crazy. NOt good business.

 

[wydejim]

if I had won that much money and they refused to pay me I would filed a lawsuit

to. hope he gets his money and then some

 

[S3mper]

Casinos are just sore losers, Phil Ivey was losing big and turned it around they gladly take his money but they wont pay? If the casino was worried about cheating they should have stopped him while he was playing not after he wins. I think its bad publicity for the casino what high roller is going to want to play there if they fear they wont get paid so even if they think he was cheating (I doubt he was) without 100% undisputable evidence (which should of been presented by now) you think they would just pay him and say don't come back to avoid risking reputation

 

[tracyrickrobby]

so did he get the money yet!! probably not huh, court cases take forever! thats a lot of money!!! sure it will take forever!! good luck to phil tho!!

 

[OzExorcist]

So im guessing there were a bunch of decks of cards that had the same flaw? How can they prove that first of all, when Phil Ivey was playing the game at the casino that the cards he was playing with had a flaw. And secondly, How can they prove that he noticed the flaw?

Easy answer to that one - cameras. Lots of cameras. They should be able to see on the recordings if there were any flaws in the cards and if Ivey / his companion was asking for certain flawed cards to be turned... n'yeah, it looks pretty bad.

Another article, also looking forward to the outcome.

http://www.sunherald.com/2013/05/15/4666743/uk-casino-accuses-us-poker-star.html

Interesting that it's actually quoting the court papers - if all the stuff the casino is alledging turns out to be true then this looks kinda bad for Ivey. And it seems likely that now this is in court they'll be bringing out the video recordings, so I'd be surprised if the casino is accusing him of anything that they can't back up with video.

This definitely seems iffy on the part of the casino too though - it seems to me it's either gross incompetence on the part of their security staff for not picking this up as it was going on (as mentioned before, it was a long session, not just a quick hit and run) or it was the casino taking a punt that Ivey was going to lose anyway, figuring if he lost then they'd keep his money and if he won they'd refuse to pay out and accuse him of cheating.

Will he be allowed to make high stakes bets again at any casinos except the few in Vegas that know him exceptionally well? Unlikely...

As long as his money is still good I'd be surprised if many casinos would deny him action. The chain directly involved in this case might, but I expect others will continue to take his business and just watch him more closely.