Online Poker Officially Banned in Australia

OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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I don't know how many poker rooms you may have been in but I've only been in the one at Crown Melbourne and imho it is a joke, it is not that big and always has a waiting list to wade through the few times I have been there.

It's still better than the Star poker room in Sydney. Which admittedly I haven't been to in years, but it was awful at the time :p

Anywho, to put some of this in perspective for the non-Australians: Crown Melbourne's biggest tournament every year is the Aussie Millions. The most entrants it has ever had was 780, and that was back in 2008. And they need to do multiple day-one flights to accommodate all those players.

Internationally, a field that size is pretty small. Here, it's pretty much the limit of what they can physically accommodate. And that's the biggest tournament of the year, in the biggest poker room in the country.

Point is, live poker here is such a small market that 1: it doesn't matter a damn to the government, or even the casinos that run it for the most part and 2: it's so small that it'll easily be maintained by the existing live player market - losing online poker isn't likely to change anything.
 
kidkvno1

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So I really don't know what more I can tell you: both Zorba and I live here, so we know the casino in question. And we're telling you, it won't make much difference to the day-to-day mix of players who go there.

If they lose some entries to the bigger tournaments they can probably make them up through live satellites. Overseas players will still be able to satellite online. Plus it's very possible that they'll actually gain some regular players, because local online regs will literallly have nowhere else legal to play.

I also know a lot of staff who work at the casino. They really aren't that bothered by it either way. Personally I'm surprised they're not pushing for legalisation so they can officially get into offering online poker themselves, but they only started up their own online sportsbook about a year ago despite those already being legal... so go figure.

And the ones who definitely couldn't care less about the impact of banning online poker on live poker room numbers are the government. It. Will. Not. Hurt. Them. One. Bit. The effect of live poker on government revenue is negligible, a literal spit in the ocean. Not one MP will lose their seat at the next election over this because there just aren't enough people that care.

They're forgoing a bit of extra tax revenue they could have made by legalising online poker, but since the status quo was that it's not legal, then they're not technically hurting there either.
Ah, I forgot about that. But it stills makes you ask why ban online poker then? It would be better to just put in a 1% tax and call it done, on online poker.

Remember we in Oz don't pay tax on winnings, the only interest they have is the tax from the casino's revenue.

I don't know how many poker rooms you may have been in but I've only been in the one at Crown Melbourne and imho it is a joke, it is not that big and always has a waiting list to wade through the few times I have been there.

They are not making huge money from poker that the government would be losing much due to online poker.

:dontknow:
I forgot, about the winnings not being taxed in AU. So why ban it, it does not add up.

Edit: I've not been in any B&M poker rooms, I was working on building a BR to pay for it, till we got hit with black Friday.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Ah, I forgot about that. But it stills makes you ask why ban online poker then? It would be better to just put in a 1% tax and call it done, on online poker.

I guess because 15+ years ago when they originally banned it the industry was the guddam wild west, and they didn't have any real concept of what legal, regulated online poker looked like? :p
 
leshausa03

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Australians will have to create an underground casino. As in gangster Chicago.
 
GRANDPAPA929

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Australia is not the first country where banned poker.
I suggest to use programs to bypass the lock and continue playing.
Russia has blocked me play games party poker but I continue to play it (I use the code of another country).
 
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ianleel

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I feel sorry for the poker players who cant play at home
 
shinedown.45

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As it has been mentioned before, there are options like VPN and offshore accounts for those willing to play online.
 
Zorba

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That's just nasty. I don't know why the government decide for the people what they should be doing with their money. Let's say, I want to just burn my money to warm up my house. It is not wise and I don't have that kind of money but it is freaking MY MONEY. :mad::mad::mad:

It's the governments job to deiced what the people can do, that's why they are a government that are freely elected by the people to govern them.

You can do whatever you like to do with your money, the government has the right to know that they will receive their cut from whatever money you are spending, (sales tax) and if they are not getting their cut they are not happy and look to ways to prevent their loss (company tax) to offshore unlicensed businesses.

It's still better than the Star poker room in Sydney. Which admittedly I haven't been to in years, but it was awful at the time :p

Anywho, to put some of this in perspective for the non-Australians: Crown Melbourne's biggest tournament every year is the Aussie Millions. The most entrants it has ever had was 780, and that was back in 2008. And they need to do multiple day-one flights to accommodate all those players.

Internationally, a field that size is pretty small. Here, it's pretty much the limit of what they can physically accommodate. And that's the biggest tournament of the year, in the biggest poker room in the country.

Point is, live poker here is such a small market that 1: it doesn't matter a damn to the government, or even the casinos that run it for the most part and 2: it's so small that it'll easily be maintained by the existing live player market - losing online poker isn't likely to change anything.

This is true.

Hey Oz, do you have any idea what it would take to open "poker clubs" around town, that would be a profitable franchise to start around the suburbs.

I don't know much about the deal that Crown has with the state.

Australia is not the first country where banned poker.
I suggest to use programs to bypass the lock and continue playing.
Russia has blocked me play games Party Poker but I continue to play it (I use the code of another country).

it may be easy for you as you have other countries near you that you may get away with it, we here in Australia do not have nearby countries that we may get away with it.

As it has been mentioned before, there are options like VPN and offshore accounts for those willing to play online.

I have been told that Stars would detect a VPN just like they can detect banned software running while Stars is running, it's not worth the possibility of having your BR confiscated.

:(
 
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Mahsa dMo

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It's the governments job to deiced what the people can do, that's why they are a government that are freely elected by the people to govern them.

You can do whatever you like to do with your money, the government has the right to know that they will receive their cut from whatever money you are spending, (sales tax) and if they are not getting their cut they are not happy and look to ways to prevent their loss (company tax) to offshore unlicensed businesses.


Yes. That is true. But is it the case here? Did they ban poker because they couldn't tax the income? or just because they don't agree with people playing poker?
 
OzExorcist

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Australia is not the first country where banned poker.
I suggest to use programs to bypass the lock and continue playing.
Russia has blocked me play games Party Poker but I continue to play it (I use the code of another country).

As it has been mentioned before, there are options like VPN and offshore accounts for those willing to play online.

That might work on some of the smaller sites, but as Zorba says, reputable sites like Stars will require you to prove that you've physically changed address first. And they're wise to people using VPNs to bypass their security so they're on the lookout for stuff like that.

You'd basically be gambling on them not finding out and banning your account.

Yes. That is true. But is it the case here? Did they ban poker because they couldn't tax the income? or just because they don't agree with people playing poker?

You'd have to go back a long way to find an answer to the "why" question - because remember, this ban dates back over 15 years. All that's happened recently is they've decided not to lift that existing ban (yet).

I suspect originally it was a mix of a few things: poker being lumped in with all other casino games, and the government not really being up to the task of regulating the industry, in a legal or technological sense. Remember this was the early 2000s, and the vast majority of providers were based in tiny overseas nations. It's only in recent years governments have worked out how to stop sites like The Pirate Bay - they would have had no hope effectively regulating something like online gaming back then, and the major players would have been less likely to play ball than they are now too.

As for why they didn't make the change now, I suspect it's literally just because nobody thought about it. Like we've said, poker (both online and live) is TINY here. Sports betting, on the other hand, is massive so that's where the focus has been.

Hey Oz, do you have any idea what it would take to open "poker clubs" around town, that would be a profitable franchise to start around the suburbs.

I don't know much about the deal that Crown has with the state.

AINAL, but here goes...

Short answer is you can't do it. Definitely not in any format that charges a rake or tournament fees. And one assumes you'd need to have something along those lines to be able to pay for dealers / tables / venue / etc.

If you're not taking rake then I dunno how you pay for it... does it basically become a self-dealt home game, just at a venue? Even then you'd still have expenses you'd need to cover.

As an aside, I have NFI how a lot of the pub poker leagues get away with doing what they do. A lot of them are free, but I know there are some that have cash buyins too. I think they disguise their tournament fees by having a minimum drinks spend or having a separate fee for "food" or whatever, but it's so transparent they probably shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

The company I work for uses a different model, clients pay us to bring all the dealers / tables / etc to them and we run a tournament for them. The vast majority of them aren't played for money, they're just for a trophy and entertainment. Occasionally we'll have ones on private premises that do play for cash, but they pay us completely independently to that prize pool, we don't even handle their buyins.
 
kidkvno1

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I guess because 15+ years ago when they originally banned it the industry was the guddam wild west, and they didn't have any real concept of what legal, regulated online poker looked like? :p
If the AU gov, is anything like the US gov, with a bunch of old farts running the gov, who don't understand, that times change, that would sum it up!

:joyman:
 
OzExorcist

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If the AU gov, is anything like the US gov, with a bunch of old farts running the gov, who don't understand, that times change, that would sum it up!

:joyman:

LOL yep, we've got plenty of those unfortunately...
 
Zorba

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SlimHeperpokerstars

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A very sad tendency, everywhere prohibit online poker (((Does anyone know why this is happening?
 
rohankamble9

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Is this news for real??? I have seen many Aussies play at pokerstars in past few days
 
Zorba

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If the AU gov, is anything like the US gov, with a bunch of old farts running the gov, who don't understand, that times change, that would sum it up!

:joyman:

No not the same, not as much dead wood in Oz as there is in the US, and we have Medicare.

:D
 
OzExorcist

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I get regular txt msgs from this mob every week, about buy in games on each week, I don't know if they are part of 888 or not, 888 online pulled out, so is this 888 league linked with 888 poker, I don't know.

http://www.888pl.com.au/Events.asp?TID=2&nDay=-1&RegionID=&OID=&Postcode=&SuburbPC=&nWeek=

iirc I think the Braybrook Hotel is not to far from you, I'm planing to start playing a few of these buy ins that are not too far from me.

:top:

There aren't really any near me unfortunately, but with a young family and work I don't have time for them anyway. Plus self-deal tournaments tilt the bejezus out of me :p

These are exactly the kind of games I was talking about though where I've got NFI how they're legal. They do say in the fine print that they don't charge a rake and 100% of the buyin goes into the prize pool (in Vic and SA - which I assume means they rake their games in other states).

There's no way the players aren't paying in some way for the service though because 888 would have to pay at least one tournament director plus other expenses, and they aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. In fact I suspect the reason they got out of the online market so quickly was because they want to protect this aspect of their business.

Is this news for real??? I have seen many Aussies play at pokerstars in past few days

Yeah as Zorba said, the legislation changes haven't actually been enacted yet. They will be when Parliament returns for its next session in early May. Some sites have pulled out already, but I expect ones like Stars will likely keep offering their service until the very last moment.
 
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Poor Aussies Playful really feels for them just like she did when we lost the major poker sites here in the United States: like six years ago
 
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It's annoying that 888 and stars won't accept Aussies in the future, but I assume ACR is just going to ignore the ruling? Should I move all of my bankroll out of stars and put it into ACR?
 
OzExorcist

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If they've ignored the law in America then it seems likely they'd ignore it in other jurisdictions too.

Whether that means you should move your bankroll there is a question only you can answer. Sounds like too much hassle and risk for my money though.
 
Zorba

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Our balances are safe imho, if ACR/BCP pullout of Oz we will still get to withdraw our funds on the sites.

I thought you were out west like somewhere near Kensington, but now I'm thinking you said you were in the northern suburbs.

We should get an Aussie thread like the Canucks have started and possibly get together an Aussie invasion crew and possibly once a month we go to one of the buy in games and clean up. ;)

:D
 
OzExorcist

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Yeah I'm north-eastern suburbs :)
 
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This is unfortunate.
To ban online poker and at the same time to open a gambling zone - isn't that insanity?
 
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