aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I would send you mine, but it is annotated with marginalia...
S
sinkist
Rising Star
Bronze Level
An excerpted quote from your book on another forum:
"When playing poker live, an experienced player coupled with a little luck is a winning hand. But when playing online, rampant cheating and endless numbers of bad players make the luck factor the deciding factor. "
The fact that you think endless bad players is bad for poker makes it seem to me that you haven't the slightest idea of how to play yourself.
"When playing poker live, an experienced player coupled with a little luck is a winning hand. But when playing online, rampant cheating and endless numbers of bad players make the luck factor the deciding factor. "
The fact that you think endless bad players is bad for poker makes it seem to me that you haven't the slightest idea of how to play yourself.
Jack Daniels
Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
FYP
My copy arrived on Tuesday, I read two chapters then immediately moved it into the bathroom for extended sittings reading. Can't bring myself to spend any other of time reading it any further than I did before relegating it to the bathroom. I'll post more thoughts after I read the whole thing.
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
Wow, AG, I'm really impressed. I somehow missed this thread. By what you describe this book really has no value, and knowing how many books you have read on poker certainly qualifies you as an expert on this subject, so I'll take your opinion on it.
If you ever win a wsop bracelet (not impossible at all if you get there thriough a satellite), I think you should take Rob's advice.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
My turn.
Finished the book. I thought about sending the author a bag full of comma's. It might have added 20 pages to the book.
I sent him this short review;
Carl
I just finished reading the book you sent me, and as promised here is my review.
I will forego the obvious criticisms, which you are probably sick of hearing about. That of course would be the punctuation and odd word usage. Hire a proofreader if you do that book on horses.
Nice history gave way to an almost paranoid caution of the pitfalls and possible shady practice of others online. You put it in ways that gave me a good long think. That is good. You may have carried it on a bit too far. Getting into what I agree is likely the best strategy toward playing online poker, MTT's, you covered that well. I refined my thinking quite a bit because of your ideas.
In a nutshell your book covers the cautions, and opportunities available online playing poker these days. Obviously many will disagree with your findings, I found nothing so disagreeable.
Would I recommend it? Not at that price. All the info you provide is worthy of getting to the masses, but I think as articles in any of the regular poker magazines.
dj.
I am not opposed to this book. There are enough good ideas in it to read it. Alien obviously studied it a bit more than I did.
Finished the book. I thought about sending the author a bag full of comma's. It might have added 20 pages to the book.
I sent him this short review;
Carl
I just finished reading the book you sent me, and as promised here is my review.
I will forego the obvious criticisms, which you are probably sick of hearing about. That of course would be the punctuation and odd word usage. Hire a proofreader if you do that book on horses.
Nice history gave way to an almost paranoid caution of the pitfalls and possible shady practice of others online. You put it in ways that gave me a good long think. That is good. You may have carried it on a bit too far. Getting into what I agree is likely the best strategy toward playing online poker, MTT's, you covered that well. I refined my thinking quite a bit because of your ideas.
In a nutshell your book covers the cautions, and opportunities available online playing poker these days. Obviously many will disagree with your findings, I found nothing so disagreeable.
Would I recommend it? Not at that price. All the info you provide is worthy of getting to the masses, but I think as articles in any of the regular poker magazines.
dj.
I am not opposed to this book. There are enough good ideas in it to read it. Alien obviously studied it a bit more than I did.
aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I wouldn't say the book as NO value (see some of the positive comments I tried to make earlier). However, one of the main premises of the book is that poor play on line (combined with the other factors he mentions) makes the game unbeatable. To be fair, perhaps the author feels this is due to a hugely massive increase in variance, although it's hard to tell. But this is so fundamentally wrong that it overrides any of the (nominal) positives that the book might have. Like I said, everyday on a poker forum somewhere a poster will ask "How high in stakes do I have to start playing before I can get rid of the muppets?" (to paraphrase the most recent one on cc). Understanding that you make money when your opponents make mistakes is essential to understanding poker. You don't want to avoid the muppets.
I have to disagree. In fact some of his main ideas will actually be detrimental to "the masses" (see above).
Q
quads
Rock Star
Silver Level
Once again Aliengenius, I believe you are taking the authors view out of context by saying,
“However, one of the main premises of the book is that poor play on line (combined with the other factors he mentions) makes the game unbeatable.”
This sounds like your personal and conservative point of view.
He clearly believes money could be made playing online poker, and explains what did work for him, and recommends that the reader try the same. His opinion as far as playing cash games online, when taking into consideration all the obstacles with endless assorted support programs, bots, and all different types of collusion taking place, and throw in the high percentage of bad players, you would have to agree that, even with a good fundamentally, sound, and experienced game, you would have a much tougher time winning money online vs. live when playing for cash. Not that every time you play a cash game these are the circumstances, but they are enough.
Yes, I agree with you that opponents’ mistakes are an advantage for the better players. And usually that’s how you make money playing poker. But when the mistakes being made online caused by either programs, collusion, or bad players, overrule the game, you find yourself sucked into a slot machine. You would have to admit that cash games are by far tougher online, then live play. At least for me there is no doubt, I do better live playing cash.
To really be profitable playing cash games online, to the point of some serious side or full time income, you need some very, very, deep pockets, a massive amount of patience, and a hell of a good game which in itself covers allot of ground. One of at least most internet players will be missing. And if you got it all then maybe you could get into that elite small percentage club of online cash player winners. And just for how long you stay there considering the club members are constantly changing you couldn’t be sure. I’m not talking about micro games either with swings of $40.00 a week. Money is a big issue for most players live or online. If playing online for some players is just fun and giggles, then so be it. There probably not even reading these forums.
And when you do play tournaments online, and if you’re lucky enough to get deep or a couple hours into one, the game improves drastically, and usually most (I said most) of the bad players gave their stacks away. The bigger stacks at this point usually create a much sounder game when compared to scrambling over the consistent same one, two, or four dollar grind playing cash.
So, I do agree with the author on many accounts, not all of course, and I’m capable of deciding what I think may be best for me. I might not be right, but I’ll find out one way or the other.
I felt the book was interesting, and could care less about the grammar. But then again I didn’t graduate from Harvard. I’ll take what I want if anything from it.
“However, one of the main premises of the book is that poor play on line (combined with the other factors he mentions) makes the game unbeatable.”
This sounds like your personal and conservative point of view.
He clearly believes money could be made playing online poker, and explains what did work for him, and recommends that the reader try the same. His opinion as far as playing cash games online, when taking into consideration all the obstacles with endless assorted support programs, bots, and all different types of collusion taking place, and throw in the high percentage of bad players, you would have to agree that, even with a good fundamentally, sound, and experienced game, you would have a much tougher time winning money online vs. live when playing for cash. Not that every time you play a cash game these are the circumstances, but they are enough.
Yes, I agree with you that opponents’ mistakes are an advantage for the better players. And usually that’s how you make money playing poker. But when the mistakes being made online caused by either programs, collusion, or bad players, overrule the game, you find yourself sucked into a slot machine. You would have to admit that cash games are by far tougher online, then live play. At least for me there is no doubt, I do better live playing cash.
To really be profitable playing cash games online, to the point of some serious side or full time income, you need some very, very, deep pockets, a massive amount of patience, and a hell of a good game which in itself covers allot of ground. One of at least most internet players will be missing. And if you got it all then maybe you could get into that elite small percentage club of online cash player winners. And just for how long you stay there considering the club members are constantly changing you couldn’t be sure. I’m not talking about micro games either with swings of $40.00 a week. Money is a big issue for most players live or online. If playing online for some players is just fun and giggles, then so be it. There probably not even reading these forums.
And when you do play tournaments online, and if you’re lucky enough to get deep or a couple hours into one, the game improves drastically, and usually most (I said most) of the bad players gave their stacks away. The bigger stacks at this point usually create a much sounder game when compared to scrambling over the consistent same one, two, or four dollar grind playing cash.
So, I do agree with the author on many accounts, not all of course, and I’m capable of deciding what I think may be best for me. I might not be right, but I’ll find out one way or the other.
I felt the book was interesting, and could care less about the grammar. But then again I didn’t graduate from Harvard. I’ll take what I want if anything from it.
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Jack Daniels
Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
Well, I haven't finished the book yet as I now only read it during bathroom trips when there is time. And even then reading it is like plucking cactus needles out of my eyes.
Sorry, I would disagree with the statements that online play is tougher than live. I would agree that it is different, but not tougher, per se. There's a different strategy involved between playing one table live vs 2, 4, 6, or even more tables online.
aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Yes. And I hope you are not taking any of the debate personally (or think that I am). Indeed, what a forum is all about
.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I have only managed to read a few pages of my copy so far, thanks to other commitments.
Haven`t yet seen enough to really form a view of the content, however my overwhelming first impression is of a book that is very hard work to read, on account of the poor standard of the writing.
On this evidence, I could well believe that Carl spent his youth playing poker, in preference to attending school.
Haven`t yet seen enough to really form a view of the content, however my overwhelming first impression is of a book that is very hard work to read, on account of the poor standard of the writing.
On this evidence, I could well believe that Carl spent his youth playing poker, in preference to attending school.
S
sinkist
Rising Star
Bronze Level
As a professional poker player both live and online, I agree with aliengenius that the claim that "bad players make winning harder" is ridiculous.
In my mind that statement alone is enough to make me not buy, read, recommend, whatever, this book. If the author truly thinks that bad players make a game more difficult, then he himself is a bad player and certainly is not fit to write a book on poker.
In my mind that statement alone is enough to make me not buy, read, recommend, whatever, this book. If the author truly thinks that bad players make a game more difficult, then he himself is a bad player and certainly is not fit to write a book on poker.
Q
quads
Rock Star
Silver Level
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
AG, took me a while to get around to reading it, but fantastic review. I was so impressed that I rushed right out to Borders and didn't buy this obviously amaturish book. Thanks for saving me the 20 bucks. Now I think I'll hit the $10 tables at Full Tilt (5 of them) and double my buy-in in an hour.
jaymfc
R.I.P DJ & Buck
Loyaler
wow , i liked all that ,some heavy disscusions , first i wanted the book then i didnt,now i dont know but aliengenius sounds like he has a very good understanding of the game and i think i'll go with him . i go crazy with all the bad beats and outright crazy players ,but in the end i think ,well if we are gonna win money we need those dummys calling us , they cant suck out everytime. (i think ) . now alien you need to help teach some of us here on cc that are interested in your deeper understandind of the game. im hooked. also i've heard of poker tracker but dont know exactly what it does or why i should have it. my note keeping consists of one word " idiot " the rest say nothing, lol.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
A new, experienced live table player showed up here the other day. He mentioned his disgust with the state of the online experience he had, lots of bad beats etc, and oddly, knowing he knew his game, my suggestion was this book.
As with any book about poker that I have read, we all will find areas to disagree with. If someone were to write a book where there would be no disagreement, it would become a manual for poker, and the game would die.
There are things in this book, that, well, no one else is saying about online poker, and in some cases, like the one I mentioned, it is the right reading material.
As with any book about poker that I have read, we all will find areas to disagree with. If someone were to write a book where there would be no disagreement, it would become a manual for poker, and the game would die.
There are things in this book, that, well, no one else is saying about online poker, and in some cases, like the one I mentioned, it is the right reading material.
aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Here is pokertracker's site. Here is cardschat's guide to PT. There is another guide available here for $20. Also, it seems that a competing program is due out soon. You will also want to get one of the programs that overlays your opponents stats on to the table (either GameTime+ or PokerAce HU). These tracking programs are essential, in my opinion. Even if you only use them for bankroll tracking they are worth every penny. Knowing exactly how many hands your opponent sees the flop with, how likely his is to bet/raise postflop, and how often he calls down, etc. is so valuable that I think you are foolish to play without it.
Recommending this book borders on criminally stealing twenty bucks from someone...
Also, it is not true that if there is no disagreement about something in poker that the game would die.
S
sinkist
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Q
quads
Rock Star
Silver Level
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