In Regards To Cheating At Poker Online...

nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
Let me start off by saying that this is not an endorsment, or a reccomendation for cheating at online poker. I do not believe in cheating and i would never do it. In fact i don't see the point. But i was playing a hand today that got me thinking about the subject. It was the first hand in a $5 heads up match at The Fish Tank. I had 9-7 off. i raised preflop, was called. bet on the flop, called. Bet on the river and on the turn, more each time, and called both times, and my opponent turned over J high, and won. Now i've been caught bluffing more times then i like to recall but 99% of the time, especially when i bluff so many times, my opponent will always turn over a pair, or at the very least a good A high. Now, i'm not saying i was cheated. I'm sure some of you might even say my opponent just out played me, but i can honestly say that if that's the case, i have never been that out played before. i could have sworn it was like he knew what i had. like i said, i'm not saying he was cheating, in fact i highly doubt he was, but it got me thinking about the possibility of cheating at online poker. I've seen posts on this site that reccomend websites that supposedly help players cheat, and most, if not all of the responses take the high road and simply condem the practice of cheating. I applaude this additude and i think it says a lot about the kind of people on this site, but i think it's a mistake to ignore the problem and hope it goes away, or at the very least never effects us. Based on all the links i've seen, on this forum and in other places, for websites that supposedly offer players the 'service' of cheating, i can't help but wonder if they actually work, not because i want to use them, but because i don't want them to be used against me. i can live with losing, but the idea of being cheated just bugs me. i have never investigated any of these sites, but i think investigation needs to be done, and i don't think that we can count on the online poker rooms to do so for us. i've seen many that stress the fairness of their service, assuring users that they're not cheating them, but i've never seen any that assure users that other users aren't cheating them. maybe i'm over reacting. maybe the whole thing is just a scam, but is it worth the risk of counting on that? i don't think this issue should be ignored. I'd like to know what you guys think and if there is any real information on this subject out there. thanks

-n
 
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xdmanx007

Legend
Online cheating wether we like it or not is a legitimate concern when ever their are machines involved they can be tampered with. NOW the commonly available so called cheating software do not allow other players to see your cards unless you are running said software as well. IT IS COLLUSION software. Whomever is running the software can see each others cards but not anybody else's. In your case you most likely ran into either a super reader, someone who wanted to pay the low price early to see how you played, or simply was a complete jackass. The later being the most likely scenario.
 
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nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
xdmanx007 said:
In you instance you most likely ran into either a super reader, someone who wanted to pay the low price early to see how you played, or simply was a complete jackass. The later being the most likely scenario.
oh i know, the more i thought about it the more convinced i became that i wasn't cheated, but it did get me thinking about it, so i decided to mention it. and in regards to what you said, in my instance, if he was a reader, he was a flipping mind reader, and it wasn't that low of a price, ammounted to over a third of his stack. but how does that expression go? something about only being able to bluff a good player :) anyway, thanks for the info.

-n
 
IrishDave

IrishDave

A Member
Another thing to consider is had this player seen you raise with a 9-7 offsuit before? I run into the same people all the time on sites I frequent and I remember things like this. I don't take notes, probably should, but I tend to categorize folks in general terms such as will try to buy, very tight, etc. Just possible this fella had played you or seen you play before and remembered that you try to buy a pot now and again...
 
~~Shelynn~~

~~Shelynn~~

Legend
Guys can't the site check on here to see if someone has that crap on their computer? Seems like if they have one to let you cheat their ought to be one they can catch you cheating.
 
DESSERTLADY

DESSERTLADY

Legend
Shelynn,

That article that I posted a day or so ago that came from Wired Magazine(if anyone read it) Said that the card rooms are constantly checking for these "cheater" softwares. Not sure if they really do but WHO KNOWS! I know one thing if they don't they are just plain stupid IMHO. Think about this. If a good player was constantly and consistantly losing at these sites that don't scan for the "cheater" software don't you think said player would try another site? I know I would. (not talking bad beats here folks) I mean you can only take so much at one site to think HMMMMMMMMM?!
The Internet poker sites that don't would eventually be losing players and money in the long run.

I know when I was playing very stupidly in the very beginning online that I cracked someone aces with a flush by calling his all in with K7hearts. I didn't know any better that I shouldn't have called that all in. I want to say(preflop with that hand)if it was post flop I must have had 4 to the flush. Been so long ago that I can't remember which it was but I do remember I got awfully berated for awhile from the guy that I beat out. That's how I remember the 2 cards I beat him with lol. (it was a very stupid move I know that now)

You know it sometimes makes you wonder what people are thinking or if they do have something going in their direction when they call gap or suited rags in early or mid position and call someone's all in that has a High Pocket Pair. Again Hmmmmmmmm?!
But if someone does have this software hopefully they will get caught with the it and get banned from ALL sites. Kind of like the casinos do with Known cheats here in the states with a Data base with ID's and alias'.
 
nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
IrishDave said:
Another thing to consider is had this player seen you raise with a 9-7 offsuit before? I run into the same people all the time on sites I frequent and I remember things like this. I don't take notes, probably should, but I tend to categorize folks in general terms such as will try to buy, very tight, etc. Just possible this fella had played you or seen you play before and remembered that you try to buy a pot now and again...
no, unless i'd played against him before. the hand i was talking about was the first hand of a heads up match. we each put in five bucks and played for it all. that's why i thought it was weird. he had no basis to read me on as far as i could tell. though you are right, if he had played against me before, he certainly could have made that observation about me, but untimatly i just think he didn't know what he was doing
 
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xdmanx007

Legend
DESSERTLADY said:
Shelynn,

That article that I posted a day or so ago that came from Wired Magazine(if anyone read it) Said that the card rooms are constantly checking for these "cheater" softwares. Not sure if they really do but WHO KNOWS! I know one thing if they don't they are just plain stupid IMHO. Think about this. If a good player was constantly and consistantly losing at these sites that don't scan for the "cheater" software don't you think said player would try another site? I know I would. (not talking bad beats here folks) I mean you can only take so much at one site to think HMMMMMMMMM?!
The Internet Poker sites that don't would eventually be losing players and money in the long run.

I know when I was playing very stupidly in the very beginning online that I cracked someone aces with a flush by calling his all in with K7hearts. I didn't know any better that I shouldn't have called that all in. I want to say(preflop with that hand)if it was post flop I must have had 4 to the flush. Been so long ago that I can't remember which it was but I do remember I got awfully berated for awhile from the guy that I beat out. That's how I remember the 2 cards I beat him with lol. (it was a very stupid move I know that now)

You know it sometimes makes you wonder what people are thinking or if they do have something going in their direction when they call gap or suited rags in early or mid position and call someone's all in that has a High Pocket Pair. Again Hmmmmmmmm?!
But if someone does have this software hopefully they will get caught with the it and get banned from ALL sites. Kind of like the Casinos do with Known cheats here in the states with a Data base with ID's and alias'.
AMEN... The sites know EVERYTHING that you are running while you are playing their site. So yeah they know unless you mask the App or process they will find out and ban you right quick.
 
D

dayna

Rising Star
ponder

i hear ya bt not just the machines we have to worry about but other players also for example i was playing a 7stud game with kk in the hole my 1st 2 up cards were jj i raised big another person reraised me allin they had 77 showing and before i even called it person next to me says to me you call your gone with her aces full so i called guess what her whole cards were aces and next card up was an ace on her so tell me did the person next to me know the outcome or were they instant messaging each other or on the phone in any case i am convinced it was collusion but not sur if its collusion between those 2 or if the person next to me truly knew what the outcome was needless to say i withdrew my money and havent played there since.:fight:






experience is what you get when you dont get your way:shot:
 
L

lwillson

Guest
don't understand

I don't understand? If you could cheat with these programs they sell on line (poker spy, bots and what not) how come you don't hear everbody talking about it? I meen the only people I hear talking about it are people who loose in a big game or a lot of money at one time. I just think if it were realy going on to the extream that some people say then there would be more talk about it.
 
DESSERTLADY

DESSERTLADY

Legend
lwillson said:
I don't understand? If you could cheat with these programs they sell on line (poker spy, bots and what not) how come you don't hear everbody talking about it? I meen the only people I hear talking about it are people who loose in a big game or a lot of money at one time. I just think if it were realy going on to the extream that some people say then there would be more talk about it.
IWillson,

If you have been around awhile on poker forums and sites long enough you will hear about it that's for sure. I just got my copy of Woman Poker Player Magazine in the mail this past weekend and one of the ads for a site in the magazine has a small caption on the bottom in bold all capital letters "BOT FREE NETWORK".

There are some people just corrupt enough :evil: to get that extra edge.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
You can also cheat without software. If you play in a heads-up tournament on-line, you and the player you're playing against could agree to go back and forth and keep your chip amount(like folding big blind) the same waiting for other players in other tables lose until you get into the Top 10 or 5. :hmmmm2:
 
nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
t1riel said:
You can also cheat without software. If you play in a heads-up tournament on-line, you and the player you're playing against could agree to go back and forth and keep your chip amount(like folding big blind) the same waiting for other players in other tables lose until you get into the Top 10 or 5. :hmmmm2:
at least at pokerstars, which is the only place i've seen heads up tournies, each level pays out the same, so it doesn't matter if your the first to go out in a round or the last
 
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xdmanx007

Legend
The only thing I know to tell ya'll is that as long as there is money involved people will try to cheat. I know the larger sites dedicate significant resources to eliminating any type of collusion or cheating. Can it and does cheating happen online of course it does but any software you can readily find online I assure you the sites know about and know how to lock the accounts of the players who use "unfair advantages" ESPECIALLY party poker they have gotten quite aggressive in recent months on the subject. Do not get suckerdd into buying so called cheating software. The ones you need to worry about are the guys doing things you never hear about! Anything readily available online is not worth getting your accounts locked!
 
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THplanes

Guest
If someone had software that would let them see others hole cards and maybe the board cards preflop. Why would they sell it. keep it a secret and use it to turn online poker into your own ATM. If you sell it, the sites will find out about it in short order and enact countermeasures that kill your cheatwares usefullnes.
 
groupmoney

groupmoney

Enthusiast
So after all the conversation, what is the bottom line.
What sites are safe and which are not?

Just because you lose 5 of 5 to a person when you have 2 pair more each hand ( not likely) does not necessarily mean that you have a bot user.

But how does one really know?
 
tazztaz

tazztaz

Rock Star
xdmanx007 said:
The only thing I know to tell ya'll is that as long as there is money involved people will try to cheat. I know the larger sites dedicate significant resources to eliminating any type of collusion or cheating. Can it and does cheating happen online of course it does but any software you can readily find online I assure you the sites know about and know how to lock the accounts of the players who use "unfair advantages" ESPECIALLY Party Poker they have gotten quite aggressive in recent months on the subject. Do not get suckerdd into buying so called cheating software. The ones you need to worry about are the guys doing things you never hear about! Anything readily available online is not worth getting your accounts locked!
:congrats: Well said my friend! If you watch the show Cheating Vagas" you see alot of ways pepole found to cheat the house and made alot of money from it UNTILL THEY GOT CAUGHT. For alot of them it was worth it, for alot of them it was very much not, and some you will never here about because the casino sent in Bubba and the boys, and dead men tell nothing. But one thing you don't see is someone selling (or telling) the way they found to do it. You won't find any thing on the net that will help you cheat that the poker room has not thought of and will pick up on quick!

Not to say at all that this will not and has not hapened. The poker rooms have already been a victom of a groop of very smart pepole that figuered out how to out use there RCG's to gain a huge advantage. These RCG's were so easy to crack they should have never been used in the first place, and have been put totaly out of use , replaced by random generators that are so good that there is no way to get any kind of edge.

On the same note don't assume that that cheating the poker room is not possible! The folks that design the security programs for the poker rooms, and any one else, are not necessarily the best in the biz. The fact is the best online security programs of there day have been cracked by 12yr old kids in ten minutes, and it took these "pro's" several months to find out how they did it, and create a fix . In fact a good % of these pros are recruted, reformed hackers. My main point is if, and when someone finds a new way to cheat the system, they are not going to sell it online for $49.99 ! It would be a smash and grab, and you may or mat not ever here about it.

Another point is that to fear that you will be a victom of advanced cheating, well I'd say you have about a one in a million chance, even if someone finds away. It would be a single person, or small groop,. And like I said it would be a quick smash and grab, a run at a load of cash.

No Not Realy, just joking.
Conspiracy Theorist of the Week

The post you have just read has been brought to you by a drunken bluffer, and do in no way reflect the views of this forum, the owners, or any other members.



The above story may be complete B.S. so there was no need to change the names, to protect any one!
 
nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
groupmoney said:
So after all the conversation, what is the bottom line.
What sites are safe and which are not?

Just because you lose 5 of 5 to a person when you have 2 pair more each hand ( not likely) does not necessarily mean that you have a bot user.

But how does one really know?
that's what i find scary about it. you don't know. hopefully it's all BS and nothing to worry about, but at least i personally sometimes find myself wondering, and i don't know what to do. with no regulation, anything is possible. that's why i wrote this post

-n
 
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THplanes

Guest
Nate, here's something else to consider. To cheat at the level of seing cards you're going to have to hack the site. I supose someone could do it. If they did, do think they would waste their time at a $5 heads up game. Ok, maybe a few times to make sure the system works. After that it's str8 to the high stakes games. They simply would not sell it to an army of low stakes players. Once you sell it, everone will know about it and sites will find a way to stop it. If this becomes a widespread problem, it would kill internet poker. So it's in the sites best interest to prevent it.

As to regulations. How is that going to stop hackers.

I think you're worried about something that even if it did happen, it would not affect the majority of players. I can olny wish I was good enough to be affected if something like this did happen.
 
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xdmanx007

Legend
Proper regulation would keep the sites from cheating... Right now United States players have no legal protection or recourse if a gaming site decides to try any funny buisness. This is the main problem.
 
nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
THplanes said:
Nate, here's something else to consider. To cheat at the level of seing cards you're going to have to hack the site. I supose someone could do it. If they did, do think they would waste their time at a $5 heads up game. Ok, maybe a few times to make sure the system works. After that it's str8 to the high stakes games. They simply would not sell it to an army of low stakes players. Once you sell it, everone will know about it and sites will find a way to stop it. If this becomes a widespread problem, it would kill internet poker. So it's in the sites best interest to prevent it.

As to regulations. How is that going to stop hackers.

I think you're worried about something that even if it did happen, it would not affect the majority of players. I can olny wish I was good enough to be affected if something like this did happen.
i'm not worried about it, and even before i made my original post, i had become convinced that i was not cheated. it just got me thinking about the subject, and based on the number of long winded (in a good way) replys that followed, i think that clearly this is a relevent topic of conversation. i just wish that my first hot thread had not been in regards to such a conspiratorial subject :)

and regulations might not stop the hackers, but if there was a regulatory body policing these sites, i for one would trust them a lot more

-n
 
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