HUD's Adversely Affecting Online Players?

[Timmah120]

Hello all!

I just watched a video on GG Poker where this player was confused about what her opponent was doing...instead of talking through the situation, she kept on clicking the player's seat to see his stats instead and try to make sense of it...in the end, she made all the wrong calls and lost a huge pot.

I know GG uses built-in stats, but for others, you need Hud software. What happens when these online players move to live play? They won't have anything to click and give them stats before making a decision.

Personally, I don't use a Hud when I play online...I just pay attention to the game and what everyone is doing. It helps me keep a clear head and use my brain to think through situations based on previous play.

Do online players just stay online for that reason? Do live players avoid online games because everyone is using a Hud and therefore getting an unfair advantage?

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts. The player in the video, to me, just seemed like she had no ability to think about a poker hand at all...

 

[Nafor]

Thinking is a critical skill in all walks of life not just in poker.

Why online players stay online and vice versa could be a result of many reasons. Personally, I do enjoy playing online but the thought of going to live casino and sitting next to some loud mouth, smelly, possibly aggressive person is more off-putting than the disability of not having a hud at my disposal.

People who play at casinos usually enjoy spending time there. I would think that they are different breed than online players.

 

[fundiver199]

I think, its way more difficult to transfer from live poker to online poker than the other way around. Online players get to see far more hands, especially if they multitable, so the learning curve is much faster, and you need to compete with people from all over the world as opposed to only people from your local area.

As a result we often see posts in this and other poker forums, which are a variation of the theme "I have played live for many years, and I am a good player, but online I lose, so it must be rigged". There are people like Gus Hansen and Daniel Negreanu, who have done really well in live poker, but online they have lost money. At the other side of the coin there are people like Tom Dwan and Doug Polk, who did well online, and after that they also did well in live poker.

As for not having a HUD, thats really not an issue, since live poker is so slow, there is plenty to time to manually observe, what your opponents are doing. The main challenges, people face when transferring to live poker from online, are completely different things like not giving away tells (no need for a poker face online) and handling their chips. And not least keeping track of the pot size and the effective stack size. This is way easier online, where the numbers are literally there on your screen for you to see.

 

[1nsomn1a]

The statistics tracking program is a very useful thing, but as in any other convenience, the main thing is not to stop thinking and thinking for yourself. With a reasonable combination, much greater success can be achieved

 

[Gallarado777]

I think that's right, my friend my online poker players stay them in live poker such players were quickly thrown overboard the ship:Lol:

 

[Poker Orifice]

I think that's right, my friend my online poker players stay them in live poker such players were quickly thrown overboard the ship:Lol:

And then you awoke from another dream but then convinced yourself yet again that it wasn't a dream.

 

[Ripelnet]

hud is critical to long term success

 

[mssmotilda]

Hello all!

I just watched a video on GG Poker where this player was confused about what her opponent was doing...instead of talking through the situation, she kept on clicking the player's seat to see his stats instead and try to make sense of it...in the end, she made all the wrong calls and lost a huge pot.

I know GG uses built-in stats, but for others, you need Hud software. What happens when these online players move to live play? They won't have anything to click and give them stats before making a decision.

Personally, I don't use a Hud when I play online...I just pay attention to the game and what everyone is doing. It helps me keep a clear head and use my brain to think through situations based on previous play.

Do online players just stay online for that reason? Do live players avoid online games because everyone is using a Hud and therefore getting an unfair advantage?

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts. The player in the video, to me, just seemed like she had no ability to think about a poker hand at all...

 

[mssmotilda]

In general, I agree with you, and I also prefer to just follow the game, but there are players who play a lot of tables and they just can’t keep track of everyone, so they need a hud.

Hello all!

I just watched a video on GG Poker where this player was confused about what her opponent was doing...instead of talking through the situation, she kept on clicking the player's seat to see his stats instead and try to make sense of it...in the end, she made all the wrong calls and lost a huge pot.

I know GG uses built-in stats, but for others, you need Hud software. What happens when these online players move to live play? They won't have anything to click and give them stats before making a decision.

Personally, I don't use a Hud when I play online...I just pay attention to the game and what everyone is doing. It helps me keep a clear head and use my brain to think through situations based on previous play.

Do online players just stay online for that reason? Do live players avoid online games because everyone is using a Hud and therefore getting an unfair advantage?

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts. The player in the video, to me, just seemed like she had no ability to think about a poker hand at all...

In general, I agree with you, and I also prefer to just follow the game, but there are players who play a lot of tables and they just can’t keep track of everyone, so they need a hud.

 

[Station_Master]

The problem with 'paying attention' to your opponents is it will work for that session, but you wont remember if it's a week later before you sit down with the same villain, you might not even recognize use the username. Huds are very useful, especially once you get 1000+ hands on a villain, as you will never remember all the details. Also if you want to multi table it's very difficult to keep track of what's going on.

 

[Luvepoker]

Having a HUD can have an advantage but many players don't know or refuse to believe HUD can be bad for them.

Fictional player has 60/50/25 VIP. We all agree he is a bit maniacal. The problem is some people will take this as gospel. The problem her is he may have only played ten hands and they dont notice he had AA QQ AKo AKs and 77 and 55.

OK but we have 100 hands now. OK he is looking more maniacal for real, problem is you last played him 15 months ago. He has learned to play better and now is actually a 15/8/2VIP.You wont know that as he was just lucky you had QQ and he had Aces will be your story.

HUDs are helpful but we should not use them as a crutch or the answer to what we are playing against. If your not making a decision based on the player you are seeing today a HUD will cost you.

Do I have a HUD. Yes but I play more without one on the site I play alot on. I find I do better without the HUD.

 

[fundiver199]

Fictional player has 60/50/25 VIP. We all agree he is a bit maniacal. The problem is some people will take this as gospel. The problem her is he may have only played ten hands and they dont notice he had AA QQ AKo AKs and 77 and 55.

This is true, but people not using a HUD will always have a small sample, because they cant remember, how the opponent played in previous games. In live poker you can have such a memory, because you see the actual player, and you dont have that many opponents. But online player pools are just to big for you to remember everyone. So non HUD-users are much more prone to making this mistake of overentrepreting a small sample than HUD users. The HUD actually helps a lot here, because even if someone has been raising 5 out of 10 hands in this game, that is drowned out by previous hands, if you have played with them before.

OK but we have 100 hands now. OK he is looking more maniacal for real, problem is you last played him 15 months ago. He has learned to play better and now is actually a 15/8/2VIP.You wont know that as he was just lucky you had QQ and he had Aces will be your story.

This is a potential issue, but you can set filters, so the HUD will only show hands, that are newer than a certain date. Like maybe 12 month or 6 month or whatever. That is a tradeoff though, because you are improving the quality of data at the expense of throwing away data, which could still be better than having no data. Another pitfall for tournament players is, that out of the 100 hands, he was sitting out in 72 of them, and this is why, he look like a total nit.

However this is also an issue for non HUD-users, because there is always the potential for someone to change gear, as it used to be called. Maybe they are titled or drunk, or online maybe its not even them playing. Getting ghoasted or letting someone else play from your account is against the TOS of all poker sites, but that does not mean, it will never happen. So weather or not you are using a HUD, you always need to pay attention to, if someone is changing their style and for instance becoming much more aggressive, that they used to be.

HUDs are helpful but we should not use them as a crutch or the answer to what we are playing against.

Its important to learn to use a HUD correctly, and as with many other things, incorrect use can be harmfull. And correct use include only making adjustments, when they are justified. This is perhaps, what most people get wrong. Just because you have a HUD running, most hands should actually be played the same way, as you would against unknowns, because you dont have information, which justify deviating from your standard line.

If your not making a decision based on the player you are seeing today a HUD will cost you.

But this brings us back to the small sample problem. "The player you are seeing today" might just have picked up 5 big hands out of the 10, he was dealt, and thats why he has been raising and reraising all the time.

Do I have a HUD. Yes but I play more without one on the site I play alot on. I find I do better without the HUD.

I purchased PT4, when I started to play poker for real money, and I have not played any significant amount of hands since without having it running. But I recently lost my database, which mean, that for a while I had almost no information on anyone, when I sat down and played. And I certainly dont think, that made me play any better. Maybe it did not make me play worse either, but I likely have missed out of some spots, where adjusting could have been profitable.

 

[D0nk3y Hunt3r]

Fictional player has 60/50/25 VIP. We all agree he is a bit maniacal. The problem is some people will take this as gospel. The problem her is he may have only played ten hands and they dont notice he had AA QQ AKo AKs and 77 and 55.

Recently I made CC freeroll final table with 90 vpip. I was just getting good ones and calling a lot. When I went all in with pocket AAs and largest stack at the table I got 4 callers .

 

[D0nk3y Hunt3r]

I think having a HUD with a knowledge of how to use it puts in disadvantage ones who don't use it. At least online, when you play literally thousands of players every day at reg level.
GG by having those built in site is kind of fairing the field.

Personally I would keep the game without huds if possible, making it more skill then technology based competition. What next, marathons when everyone is allowed to take enhancements drugs before the start?

Of course it's impossible to keep it like that, when the money is involved.

 

[Recreationalplayer]

HUD stats does help making informed decision. But its a tool and should be used alongside other observation.

 

[Luvepoker]

This is true, but people not using a HUD will always have a small sample, because they cant remember, how the opponent played in previous games. In live poker you can have such a memory, because you see the actual player, and you dont have that many opponents. But online player pools are just to big for you to remember everyone. So non HUD-users are much more prone to making this mistake of overentrepreting a small sample than HUD users. The HUD actually helps a lot here, because even if someone has been raising 5 out of 10 hands in this game, that is drowned out by previous hands, if you have played with them before.


This is a potential issue, but you can set filters, so the HUD will only show hands, that are newer than a certain date. Like maybe 12 month or 6 month or whatever. That is a tradeoff though, because you are improving the quality of data at the expense of throwing away data, which could still be better than having no data. Another pitfall for tournament players is, that out of the 100 hands, he was sitting out in 72 of them, and this is why, he look like a total nit.

However this is also an issue for non HUD-users, because there is always the potential for someone to change gear, as it used to be called. Maybe they are titled or drunk, or online maybe its not even them playing. Getting ghoasted or letting someone else play from your account is against the TOS of all poker sites, but that does not mean, it will never happen. So weather or not you are using a HUD, you always need to pay attention to, if someone is changing their style and for instance becoming much more aggressive, that they used to be.

Its important to learn to use a HUD correctly, and as with many other things, incorrect use can be harmfull. And correct use include only making adjustments, when they are justified. This is perhaps, what most people get wrong. Just because you have a HUD running, most hands should actually be played the same way, as you would against unknowns, because you dont have information, which justify deviating from your standard line.

But this brings us back to the small sample problem. "The player you are seeing today" might just have picked up 5 big hands out of the 10, he was dealt, and thats why he has been raising and reraising all the time.

I purchased PT4, when I started to play poker for real money, and I have not played any significant amount of hands since without having it running. But I recently lost my database, which mean, that for a while I had almost no information on anyone, when I sat down and played. And I certainly dont think, that made me play any better. Maybe it did not make me play worse either, but I likely have missed out of some spots, where adjusting could have been profitable.

Its always good to see fundiver chiming in. I have a lot of respect for you and know you really know what your talking about.

Absolutly agree with everything you said here.

 

[fundiver199]

What next, marathons when everyone is allowed to take enhancements drugs before the start?

Or maybe motor racing, where the driver is not allowed to have any kind of instruments in the car?

 

[D0nk3y Hunt3r]

Or maybe motor racing, where the driver is not allowed to have any kind of instruments in the car?

No safety provided by technology:
"[accident] happened five years later in 1896 [...] So, even though the car was crawling at a speed 4 mph, the collision occurred."

vs technology unleashed:
"There were no restrictions on boost, resulting in the power output of the winning cars increasing from 250 hp in 1981, to there being at least two cars producing in excess of 500 by 1986, the final year of Group B in rally."
"An FISA investigation later proved that drivers' reactions were too slow to keep up with Group B cars, and drivers' eyes could not adjust their focus between the fast corners, which caused..."

vs technology unleashed:
"The fastest car crash anyone has survived took place on 17 November 1966 at the Bonneville Salt Flats near Wendover, Utah. Land-speed-record racer Art Arfons was piloting his jet-powered Green Monster at around 610 mph (981 km/h)"

I hope your eyes adjust fast enough for quickly changing stats of opponents

I'm sorry I couldn't help my self.

 

[takinitSLEAZEE]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... There's one born every minute. This is exactly why I play online poker, though. It's like their handicap or something. They need the "advantage". Good. They, being, those who use the HUD. I prefer to play live but it's not always, ahem, in the cards as they say, lol.
I must say that the HUD has done me some favors, though; especially since I don't use it.
The only way to figure out what other players are holding is from experience, imo. Paying attention, taking notes, and optimal bet-sizing are the keys. Oops, I've said too much.
All you players using the HUD I applaud you. Your need for instant gratification is, ironically, a slow process to "would-be" positive results. Thank you and keep up the good work.

 

[I Live Poker]

this is not about how the hud can negatively influence you to the point of making you lazy to make decisions based solely on your perception rather than data. It's about how you use it in a useful way that doesn't impair your independent cognition. And it varies from person to person, everything varies to infinitum.

 

[spectralwave]

Hud is very good at the long term process, he will help you develop your poker skills.

 

[TeUnit]

Its pretty difficult to watch every hand if you have a lot of tables going, so I think a HUD makes it much easier to understand how players are playing.

 

[jordanbillie]

I just want to chime in by saying I do not use a HUD, and I never will.

I have tried them in the past, and honestly do not like them.

I don't really play "poker" in the same sense as everyone else though, and I wonder if this is why HUDs don't suit my game style.

My "system" of knowing/identifying long term playing styles is by taking good notes and looking up statistics related to MTT results (sharkscope). I put the stats in the notes and color code to ROI/ITM%s. Also, I date my notes so I can double check players that I haven't looked up in a while (to make sure they are still trending in the direction I originally perceived). What is interesting about this style of note taking is that I have been able to see development in certain players, which is not always for the good.

Also, since I don't multi-table that much and play small field MTTs, I get to know the handful of good players (let's be honest, only 20% of poker players are better than break even!) much like getting to know players in a regular weekly game. I know what the consistent winners are doing to be consistent winners, and I adapt my style accordingly. I also get a really good idea of the regular FISH, and what they are doing to lose way more often than average (mostly by calling too light pre flop!).

I think because I only play late stages of MTTs, the data provided by HUDs would be misleading/inapplicable. I simply don't play deepstacked poker, and don't need the data.

 

[Sschafell]

in my opinion should not have hud!

 

[offshore11000]

Well, I think that huds will always be a controversial subject, regarding their use and possible advantages. However, I believe that a good player is much more difficult to face even with huds.