When do you move up a level.

[HoldemChamp]

I was replying to my post about 1/2 penny tables and it brought to mind an interesting question.

Many players feel that you should not change levels until you can crush the level your are play.

So what do you consider crushing a table. If you win an average of 4x the Big Bet per session. Or should you be making 8x the Big Bet. Or should it be even higher.

Keep in mind we are talking about 1/2 penny games.

I realise the $1/$2 things are different and the levels higher than that as well.

So, think in terms of Mini Mircro Limits like 1/2, 2/4, and 5/10 cent Limit tables.

Do you feel these 3 levels play the same and one should just play any of them because the play is essential about the same.

Or, should someone start at 1/2 penny and slowly move up.

Which goes back to the question of how many times the Big Bet should you be making off the 1/2 tables to be considered crushing it?

 

[diabloblanco]

I have never played those limits and I think a lot of the BB/hr and BB/100 hands are designed to give you an idea of moving up through the low (1/2) and higher levels. If you are a consistant winner at the micro limits, meaning you are beating the game for several BB/hr, you should make a move. If you don't do good you can always go back down after a couple losing sessions.

Your bankroll is a determining factor as well. You should bring to a NL table no less than 30 big bets, and your bankroll should be no less than 200 to 300 times the big bet of the limit you're playing.

 

[xdmanx007]

hmmmmm how to best word this. You can probably lump all the "micro" limits together upto prolly .25/.50 maybe not quite that high but you get the point. I have read the 4x the BB/hr is supposed to be an unsustainable level of winning,mine is 50/100 BB or 17 BB/hr over 5000 hands on party poker. Which is supposed to be totally unsustainable! Not sure if Party rules should apply though :bandit: I personally think if you consistently walk away with more than you sat down with over say a couple thousand hands, feel comfortable with your game, and have the bankroll to cover the next "level". Go right ahead.. but when in doubt be patient in other words if you don't know stay where you are!:icon_scra

 

[diabloblanco]

Well put XD. Holdemchamp, if you're baning every time you sit, or almost every time (cold card runs notwithstanding) and your bankroll can sustain the higher swings, go ahead and make a move. Just don't stay there and throw good money after bad if you get your ass handed to you. There was a good thread a couple days ago about when to walk away, you may want to look it up for some advice. Since I'm too lazy to look and link, ill paraphrase it.

Howard lederer has a rule of thumb given to his sister Annie Duke when she first started poker for a living. Only take a 30 BB beating at one sitting. Any more than that makes you voulnerable and lowers your table image. If you stick to this, or some variation close to it, you shoud be fine.

I personally use the bankroll management rule, which most estimate between 200 and 300 big bets for a comfortable limit, much more than the BB/hr rule. If I am making money and I can get into a soft game at a higher limit and win, I will. I won't go broke trying, but ill gamble anyway. It has been profitable for me in the past.

I don't recomend it, but I have played beyond my limits/bankroll requirements in the past, a la Matt Damon in Rounders when he sat with Chan at the 300/600 table with only 6000 dollars. Now I haven't done anything that drastic, nor have I played with Chan, but you get the gist. Above all, have fun with it. Don't move up just to have to worry about losing your roll. You seem to enjoy the lower limits and do well, moving up can be much more fun or much more headache. But I think you'll do fine.

Also, XD....17BB/hr!?!

 

[xdmanx007]

YEAH! 17 man! on Party atthe 25 and 50 pl and nl tables over the last 5000 hands that's what poker tracker tells me..... Sounds insane doesn't it? I actually think the winning 50 big bets per 100 hands is the crazier stat... I'd say I am crushing the games pretty good.

 

[diabloblanco]

Crushing doesn't even begin to describe that number. What is your hands played percentage?

 

[xdmanx007]

hands played?, probably the closest stat is what is called voluntarily putting money in the pot which is 19 percent. Basically that means hands other than checking the BB that I played. Closest common stat is flop percentage seen.

 

[diabloblanco]

I'm not an online guy, but I know a little about poker tracker and the median numbers that are typical and you are smokin whatever level you're at. Dammit man.

If you move up, expect a drop, but you sound like you may be making enough there to hang out and keep knocking it dead. Maybe just slink up a level and play some SnG's at a higher buy-in or something. Wow man. Good show.

 

[xdmanx007]

LOL Remember when I told you you might think about not playing higher stakes because the low stakes are so profitable? Now you know what I mean!

 

[HoldemChamp]

XD,

Wow. 25/50 cent and you are maintaining 17 the BB. Have you played Limit at that level. I wonder how many times the BB could be maintained playing 25/50 cent limit holdem.

$8.50 an hour seems like a nice chunk of change to making at that level as a side income.

 

[dinosdynasty]

I was wondering the same thing, if moving up would be as profitable?
I am averaging 13bb/hr playing two .25/.50 limit tables at once. That even includes a session earlier this week when I had A/A get cracked 2 hands in a row with the betting capped before the flop, once against 4/4 when he hit his trips on the end after we capped the betting every round (that hurt and cost alot), the next hand got cracked by Q/4 when he flopped 2 pair. I also lost A/K with a capped bet before the flop and an A/K on the flop when some donkey hit a runner/runner flush with his 6/3. Didn't go on tilt (threw a few things but didn't go on tilt) and then won some back after the donkeys stopped catching. I have this forum to thank for that.

 

[Tammy]

Moving up in levels usually helps to cut back on the suck-outs, but I've found that it usually doesn't make a difference until the $1/$2 level and up.

 

[zinzan1000]

Moving up in levels usually helps to cut back on the suck-outs, but I've found that it usually doesn't make a difference until the $1/$2 level and up.

Have to agree here, and i am wondering about the posts before this one.
Are we working on a rule of thumb situation as to when it is right to move up?
This is just my opinion and i am aware that some players cant afford to move up for various reasons, but penny games will not help you to improve your game other than getting a feel for real money tables, and even then apart from getting used to the rules/site etc it will harm your game long term.
For the sake of a few extra $$ per session it might be better to play at quarter games as a starter.
If only to not give you the false impression of real money tables by playing 0.5/0.10
I know this is a touchy subject and as i have already said, this is just my opinion nothing else.
But long term success at 0.5/0.10 will only give you a false impression on things that lay ahead, and more worryingly give you very bad habits.
I know that we all have to start somewhere but its wise to not start where there is nothing to be learned and where you may find yourself spending weeks/months honing your skills only to find that you are now the proud owner of very poor/bad habits.

zinzan1000 be lucky