MK_
Visionary
... it's considered softplay, it may be seen as collusion,..... there's no good reason not to bet your hand when there is no more action available and you have the nuts, it could just be a mistake but it could also be softplay.... haven't seen a site that enforces it but it would be a red flag to see that a lot.
dreamer13
Legend
Like back checking in position on the river, for example, with four of a kind, you can provoke a wild laugh at most, but not a bluff at all. Position in poker is having the last word in the auction. This means that it is impossible to check in position on the river to provoke - your word is the last and after your check there will be a showdown.
christovam
Rock Star
I think that the player should use the moments when he is nuts to exploit the opponent, because you already know that you will win the hand. If you hide your hand by betting heavily, the villain has no way of knowing whether it's a bluff or not, except that he will pay to see. If you show for free, then you make your image explicit for a low price.
Gallarado777
Legend
Well, why check on the last street if you have nuts you have to get from your opponent or you don't get anything I think the answer is obvious, only there is one thing if you know that your opponent will bluff then you can check after his raise bet and collect more money but this is rarely done
Oranaro
Rock Star
I would say that when you have the nuts on the river, you should never check back, you can always bet, and if villain folds, you get the same value as if you did check back, and sometimes you get called, and win more. When you are oop, you have some cases when to check, if you think that villain has a bluff that he might barrel on the river, or you think that if you value bet his hand, he would fold, while when you check he can to value bet his own hand. These are quite rare situations, and usually, when you have the nuts, you wan to get called by a strong hand, 2nd nuts, or even a strong bluff catcher as double pair that block a color, a weaker straight or flush, Ax making a pair blocking your hand, anything like that , can actually call your polarized range, not always but enough (I mean even getting called 1/20 time, is enough to explain a bet)
Branimir84
Visionary
As an ex dealer I can tell you that such an action is considered collusion and if discovered you wouldn't be playing at that casino any longer.
Of course I am referring to checking the nuts on the river after other players have acted.
Of course I am referring to checking the nuts on the river after other players have acted.
johnnylawford
Visionary
i think the key is checking the nuts in position. If you're out of position and you suspect your opponent is polarized then checking the nuts can sometimes be correct as your opponent will bluff river with all his missed draws. This is also true for cards that are better for them. For instance, you defend your big blind against an UTG open with 87 and the flop comes 777, you check/raise flop, bet turn and the river is an ace. If you think UTG will always bet the ace whether or not they have it you can check and let them bet, where as if you do bet you're only getting called by a full house.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I think, its mostly live tournaments, that have that rule? At least I am not aware of any online poker sites, which does. It would also be far more difficult to enforce, since there is no human dealer available to see, what happened and impose a penalty like sitting out an orbit. As others have said, its to prevent collusion in the form of softplay. If you have the nuts, AND you are closing action, there is no reason to not bet or raise other than to be "friendly" to other people involved in the hand. Of course its different, if there are more people still to act behind you, and then the rule dont apply.
G0930
Legend
I only saw this rule enforced at live poker but never online . The floorman gives you a warning and that's it.
If it happens multiple times you get a timeout e.g you're not allowed to play for 2 levels in the tournament .
I can't see how this should work online
UnderDawg5501
Enthusiast
Ok, I'm just a newbie, but this question/statement makes no sense.
If the last player to act at the end of the river does not bet, thats against the rules?
The "nuts" could be a pair of 2's, theoretically since at this point, no one knows the actual hands including the last player to act.
If I have a set, who's to say there isn't a bigger set, a full house, a straight?
The only actual "Nuts" is a royal flush, anything less is a hand, how can a player know he/she has the nuts before the hands are reveiled?
If the last player to act at the end of the river does not bet, thats against the rules?
The "nuts" could be a pair of 2's, theoretically since at this point, no one knows the actual hands including the last player to act.
If I have a set, who's to say there isn't a bigger set, a full house, a straight?
The only actual "Nuts" is a royal flush, anything less is a hand, how can a player know he/she has the nuts before the hands are reveiled?
Sebbour
Rock Star
Maximum absolute nuts is Royal Flush but here is topic about maximum nuts dependant of the board.
So if you have:
and the board is:
you have the nuts because no other combination of other player cards can beat your hand.
Luvepoker
Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
You can check the nuts on the river if you are hoping to get the other player to bluff into you. If you are last to act and going to close the action, you must bet the nuts on the river. That is my uderstanding of that anyways.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
As Sebbour has explained, the term "nuts" is used in poker for the best possible hand given the board texture. So if for instance you have AA preflop, that is referred to as having the nuts, because nobody else can have a better hand. Of course AA can get cracked, so having the nuts does not mean, you will always win, unless you have it on the river.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Exactly. And in this situation most live tournaments will not allow you to check back or to just call, if you are the last player to act. And the reason for this should be fairly obvious. Because why would you do that, when you know, you have the best hand, other than in an attempt to help someone else? Not sure how much of a newbie UnderDawg5501 is. But just to make it completely clear, AA is the nuts here, because there are no hole cards, that can give someone a better 3 of a kind, a straigth, a flush, a full house, a straight flush or a royal flush. QQ is the second nuts, because only one specific hand (AA) can beat it, 88 is the third nuts, and so on and so forth.So if you have:
and the board is:
you have the nuts because no other combination of other player cards can beat your hand.
UnderDawg5501
Enthusiast
I get that, and I did go googling it as well. It seems that is a huge discussion within the tournament community, and that rule only applies to the actual tournament play. not cash games etc. to prevent "friends" from affecting the outcome of the tournament, not because it is necessarily a bad thing.
It just seems odd that someone would be forced to bet.
Such is life, since I've never been in a live tournament, that is news to me.
It just seems odd that someone would be forced to bet.
Such is life, since I've never been in a live tournament, that is news to me.
Balou1982
Enthusiast
i agree with that
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Phoenix Wright
Legend
Loyaler
Huh? Not allowed? Sure you are. It just isn't usually a great idea because if you have the nuts, then you probably want to bet for value to get paid. It is generally unlikely your check will be check-raised, so you'll probably be more profitable just betting for value with your best hands.