why didnt i win this hand?? (omaha confusion)

[peskey123]

Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha (5 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB: $0.96
BB Hero: $6
UTG: $1
CO: $0.60
BTN: $1.71
Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB and dealt
2 folds, BTN calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.06) (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.04, BTN calls $0.04, SB folds
Turn: ($0.14) (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
River: ($0.14) (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
Final Pot: $0.14
Showdown:
Hero shows
BTN shows
Outcome: BTN wins $0.14

 

[peskey123]

Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha (5 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB: $0.96
BB Hero: $6
UTG: $1
CO: $0.60
BTN: $1.71
Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB and dealt
2 folds, BTN calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.06) (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.04, BTN calls $0.04, SB folds
Turn: ($0.14) (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
River: ($0.14) (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
Final Pot: $0.14
Showdown:
Hero shows
BTN shows
Outcome: BTN wins $0.14

 

[No Brainer]

You have to use two cards from your hand. If there is four cards to a flush on the board you cant just use a single card to win, you have to have two clubs in your hand

 

[Stick66]

BTN's AQ made a straight. You must use 2 of your cards and only 3 from the board to make your hand. Therefore, you did NOT have a flush.

 

[No Brainer]

So in this hand, you had 2 pair, 9 9 T T K

he had a straight T J Q K A

 

[RamdeeBen]

I've always thought that. . and I'd be inclined to believe it that you need to use 2 cards. However, I've noticed from myself and others if they have 3 of a kind with only one of the cards in their hand they still get 3 of a kind. Makes no sense does it!

To be fair I don't know the rules exactly but knew you had to use 2 cards just in some circumstances you can use one card...whys that?
Sorry for the hi-jack lol.

 

[Poof]

I've always thought that. . and I'd be inclined to believe it that you need to use 2 cards. However, I've noticed from myself and others if they have 3 of a kind with only one of the cards in their hand they still get 3 of a kind. Makes no sense does it!

To be fair I don't know the rules exactly but knew you had to use 2 cards just in some circumstances you can use one card...whys that?
Sorry for the hi-jack lol.

You can make 3 of a kind with one from your hand and 2 on the board, because it is the best 5 cards ( two from your hand, and 3 from the board) that count.
So no matter what you are combining 3 cards from the board with 2 in your hand and the best combo will win.
I am sure I am explaining this the hard way, lol

It's kinda funny because I still forget this at times and will use 3 from my hand or 4 from the board and be jumping up and down at showdown, till I see the chips slide the other way.

 

[watchtowel]

Yea even after playing a while I forget, I got all my money in thinking I had a royal flush once but was using three of my hand with 2 on the board

 

[WVHillbilly]

I've always thought that. . and I'd be inclined to believe it that you need to use 2 cards. However, I've noticed from myself and others if they have 3 of a kind with only one of the cards in their hand they still get 3 of a kind. Makes no sense does it!

To be fair I don't know the rules exactly but knew you had to use 2 cards just in some circumstances you can use one card...whys that?
Sorry for the hi-jack lol.

You always have to use EXACTLY 2 of your whole cards. So if your hand is AQJT and the board is AAKK3 you do NOT HAVE a FH, you have AAAKQ.

 

[mrmonkey]

ITT:

Reasons why PLO is extremely profitable.

 

[bredstik]

It can be a little confusing. Once in a while I catch myself getting happy about what's on the board and not using TWO cards from my hand.

 

[Tammy]

I've always thought that. . and I'd be inclined to believe it that you need to use 2 cards. However, I've noticed from myself and others if they have 3 of a kind with only one of the cards in their hand they still get 3 of a kind. Makes no sense does it!

To be fair I don't know the rules exactly but knew you had to use 2 cards just in some circumstances you can use one card...whys that?
Sorry for the hi-jack lol.

You always have to use EXACTLY 2 of your whole cards. So if your hand is AQJT and the board is AAKK3 you do NOT HAVE a FH, you have AAAKQ.

Could it be that they are using one card from their hole cards to complete the set, and one from the hole as a kicker?

For example, they are holding AQJT, board is AA9K2, so their hand would be AAAKQ?

 

[Poof]

ITT:

Reasons why PLO is extremely profitable.

lol so true.
I am hoping to get it down pat so I can enjoy the profits.

 

[watchtowel]

Could it be that they are using one card from their hole cards to complete the set, and one from the hole as a kicker?

For example, they are holding AQJT, board is AA9K2, so their hand would be AAAKQ?

Yes, always 5 cards, if you miss you may use two hole cards as kickers.

 

[RamdeeBen]

You can make 3 of a kind with one from your hand and 2 on the board, because it is the best 5 cards ( two from your hand, and 3 from the board) that count.
So no matter what you are combining 3 cards from the board with 2 in your hand and the best combo will win.
I am sure I am explaining this the hard way, lol

It's kinda funny because I still forget this at times and will use 3 from my hand or 4 from the board and be jumping up and down at showdown, till I see the chips slide the other way.

Thats my point. You say two from your hand, so how can using one card from your 4 cards be classed as a winning hand? I understand the best 5 card wins but if it's 2 from your hand then how can showing one from your hand and 2 from the board work? In some circumstances you can use one from your hand it seems to be. Many times I've seen a person show down a better hand than me, ie: quads with just one of the cards in their hand. It isn't using EXACTLY 2 of their cards.

You always have to use EXACTLY 2 of your whole cards. So if your hand is AQJT and the board is AAKK3 you do NOT HAVE a FH, you have AAAKQ.

As with what I just said to poofy it doesn't make sense. People say you must use EXACTLY 2 of your cards to make a hand. Therefore I don't understand why you can often with a 3 of a kind when the board has paired and you use the other card in your hand. That's one card, or am I missing something?;p

Could it be that they are using one card from their hole cards to complete the set, and one from the hole as a kicker?

For example, they are holding AQJT, board is AA9K2, so their hand would be AAAKQ?

I never thought in terms of a kicker, but that doesn't make sense either because if you pair a board with a King for example and have an Ace in your hand and say it went to show down you would be classed as having a pair of kings + ace kicker.



This is a reason I don't play Omaha as sometimes I'm sure I've got the best hand then other times not so sure as I'm thinking well I've only got one card here I'm using. It goes to showdown and the next thing I win, yet other times my hand wont count using one card :i

 

[Swear Engine]

Ram in the examples you're giving although only one of your hole cards is actively making part of the description of your hand(three of a kind) your highest other hole card will be part of your best possible five. In Omaha you ALWAYS use two of your hole cards. There's no discussion to be had it's part of the rules. Or am i taking your post too seriously? I'm a bit lost by your reasoning on the last part about the kicker.

For example

You hold


Board is


So your best five cards are

The three sevens from the board, your hole seven and your highest other hole card the Jack. You've made the best possible hand from two of your hole cards and three from the board.

Is this where i find out that this was a wind-up?

 

[RamdeeBen]

Ram in the examples you're giving although only one of your hole cards is actively making part of the description of your hand(three of a kind) your highest other hole card will be part of your best possible five. In Omaha you ALWAYS use two of your hole cards. There's no discussion to be had it's part of the rules. Or am i taking your post too seriously? I'm a bit lost by your reasoning on the last part about the kicker.

For example

You hold


Board is


So your best five cards are

The three sevens from the board, your hole seven and your highest other hole card the Jack. You've made the best possible hand from two of your hole cards and three from the board.

Is this where i find out that this was a wind-up?

I totally understand what you're saying..

Just like the OP though, with his flush he didn't understand why he didn't win. He only used one of his cards. I was just pointing out I don't partcilaur understand the rules to a tee, maybe I should learn them but was pointing out I've had simular experiences with it in Omaha before where say taking your example..but without another 7 on the board he would of hit trip 7'7s which would of won by using just the one card (the 7) which isn't using EXACTLY two of your hole cards.

Besides this is the point I was making. Take your example you have showed, the best possible hand is indeed what you say but four of a kind + a kicker J which just doesn't exsist in four of a kind or does it?

It's just four a kind so in theory you only used one of your cards (the 7) So how is that using exactly TWO of your cards as you put it? You are infact only using one of your cards from your four cards here.

I'd be more inclined to think if you held two 7'7s and two more 7'7s hit the board then you do indeed have four of a kind because you have used exactly two of your hole cards to make the four of a kind..

When it goes to showdown it will say "blahblah won with four of a Kind" that's all it will say if you had one 7 in your hole cards are indeed two so I'm trying to find out where when it says you won with four of a kind did you use two of your hole cards when 3 of the cards on the board made your four of a kind? It's impossible.

It kind of make no sense because the J has no bearing what so ever on the four of a kind had, just like in his flush, why can't one of his other cards which has no meaning at all (like your Jack there has no meaning) to the flush be used as part of his hand?

That's why I was trying to say it makes no sense to me at times. I've won with 3 of a kind with only having ONE of the cards in my hole cards and like the OP he had one flush card in his hole yet didn't win with a flush.

Kind of seems likes an odd rule where it applies to some hands using one card and other hands you need to use two cards. Like I say, I probably need to read up more on it but hopefully you see where I'm coming from.

Am I reading it wrong or is what your example showed NOT quad 7's? If so then you have only used one of your cards to make four of a kind and not two. If your hand example ISNT quads then you have nothing apart from a full house 7'7s full of 9'9s correct? That should be right as you're then using two of your hole cards to make a hand (9,9's)? If that is the case the latter example which it should be in theory using two cards, then how does your example show your hand as having a final hand like

Am I reading this wrong?

 

[Poof]

When it goes to showdown it will say "blahblah won with four of a Kind" that's all it will say if you had one 7 in your hole cards are indeed two so I'm trying to find out where when it says you won with four of a kind did you use two of your hole cards when 3 of the cards on the board made your four of a kind? It's impossible.

Three of the cards on the board made the quads, because you use 3 from the board, the other hole card you use will be the kicker.
It is the best hand made with three from the board and 2 from your hand.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Three of the cards on the board made the quads, because you use 3 from the board, the other hole card you use will be the kicker.
It is the best hand made with three from the board and 2 from your hand.

Maybe I'm just argumentative

I understand what you're saying here 3 of the cards on the board means he then needs to use 2 of his own cards to make the flush..How can a kicker come into play with his example above though? Quads just don't have kickers I thought? I thought it was a made hand and no kicker needed?

As you say it's the best hand made with 3 on the board and TWO of your hole cards. So how is using the one 7 from your hole cards and the J a kicker when I'm sure a kicker doesn't come into play with four of a kind, or does it in Omaha? You only actually ever used four cards to make that hand, the jack kicker is irrelevent because it's impossible for someone else to have a seven so the "kicker" is non existent meaning you only used one of your hole cards and 3 cards on the board, thus only using 4 cards in total and not five.

In theory if he has to use 3 of the board cards and two of his own then the one that stands out to me and the only possible hand "made" he has there using the 3 on the board cards and two in his hole is a full house. 7'7s full of 9'9s.. not quad 7'7s!

This is why I don't really like playing Ohama, the rules seem to contradict themselves in many ways.

 

[Poof]

OK, think of it this way. It is showdown and you have to toss two of your hole cards, keeping 2, and pick 3 from the board to make a hand. Would you not pick the three 7s from the board to be part of your hand?

 

[RamdeeBen]

OK, think of it this way. It is showdown and you have to toss two of your hole cards, keeping 2, and pick 3 from the board to make a hand. Would you not pick the three 7s from the board to be part of your hand?

Yeah you would.

So if you have to use exactly two of your hole cards like everyone says, tossing in the 7 and Jack doesn't work as you're only using one of your cards to make quad sevens.(jack or any other card you throw in isn't relevant to the hand you made) You should in theory throw in the pair of 9'9s in your hole cards which makes a full house..and you are then using exactly TWO of your hole cards and three on the board. That was my point with the whole using exactly two of your hole cards to make a hand and 3 on the board.

If you say they disregard the J and use the one card for the four of a kind then why cant someone with one flush card in the hole like the OP throw that in the middle with another random card in their hole cards and just use the one card to make the flush like the four of a kind example but they actually have to have two flush cards to make the flush yet for that example above, they don't.

Do you see where I'm coming from? It seems some hands you only need to use one of your hole cards and other times you have to use two of your hole cards..

I know you're going to say that well the OP was using four of the board cards to make his flush, which I understand. It just seems the whole meaning of using EXACTLY two of your hole cards to make a hand doesn't apply at all times.

 

[Poof]

I give up.

 

[RamdeeBen]

I give up.

lol. Hey, I'm being serious though. I know I might sound dumb or so, but doesn't it make sense to the conclusion what I'm trying to say..

I understand the logic behind it and so on, I'm just saying in general though it seems to contradict itself the rules in Omaha a bit..

Anyhow, never mind - that's why I stay away from Omaha most likely because I don't have a full understanding of it but it seems a bit backwards to me. One minute you need to use EXACTLY 2 of your cards, the next you can throw in any other card which has no relevance to made hand in some cases but in other cases like the OP flush it doesn't count even though both times in both of these hands only ONE of the holecards was used to make a hand. that's all I was pointing out

 

[Poof]

OK, let me try this another way. Poker is always the best 5 cards wins.
To make that hand, at showdown in Omaha, you can use any 5 but you have to have 2 from your hand and 3 from the board. Not all of those cards have to contribute to the winning part, but the only combos you can hsve to come from those.

 

[Swear Engine]

LOL i can see why it could be confusing. But in the example you gave of the flush that wouldn't work because you have to use two hole cards. So regardless of how many spades/clubs or whatever are on deck you need two to make the flush because you need to make the best possible hand using 5 of the 9 available whilst still using two of your hole cards.

The example i gave IS quads.

Are you maybe getting mixed up with the rules on bad beat payouts at NLHE? To qualify as quad 8s there must be two on deck and you have the other two?