Where is the mistake?

Eriktommy163

Eriktommy163

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I recently watched a video on youtube, with the poker stars. During the break, making the task to calculate the chances of winning the next hand:
I have :jh4::10h4:vs:9s4::9c4:. The flop is :9h4::8h4::2c4:. It is further proposed to calculate what are the chances of winning. Guided https://www.cardschat.com/odds-for-dummies.php I thought so: For me out is :qh4::qd4::qs4::qc4: + :7h4::7c4::7s4::7d4: + :2h4::3h4::4h4::5h4::6h4::kh4::ah4: = 15.
15 * 4 = 60%. But in video correct answer is 42%. Why? Where is the mistake?
 
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Aca0012

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Probably because the opponent hit the set on the flop and he also gets a higher percentage to win in this hand. You can easily tie the cards and you are dead in this hand so that the opponent here is extremely strong on the flop.
 
Misaki

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ok you have 15 outs but you have to remember that if you will hit for example Ah on turn and on river another ace will come then your hand loses. Sometimes some outs are not "clear". That's why your percentages to win are decreased.
 
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RocwX

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Even if you end up hitting the flush or the straight the opponent can still beat you with a full house or quads. In the flop they have 7 cards to improve immediately (any 8, any 2 and the 9 of diamonds) and they will pick up 3 more as the turn comes (or 2 more if it's a J or a T). That's why the odds of you improving your hand are not the same as the odds of you actually winning the hand.
 
Eriktommy163

Eriktommy163

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Ok, I get it. But they received a 42%? how to calculate it?
 
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Pickat

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If the board pairs it cancels most of your outs . I'm not sure how they calculate that possibility , but you can hit your straight or flush and still lose if the 9 comes or the board pairs .
 
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CallmeFloppy

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First, like others have stated, the 2 of hearts would give your opponent a full house which would beat your flush. The other thing to remember is that the rule of 4 and 2 is an estimation, not an exact calculation.
 
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bmckay210

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I recently watched a video on youtube, with the poker stars. During the break, making the task to calculate the chances of winning the next hand:
I have :jh4::10h4:vs:9s4::9c4:. The flop is :9h4::8h4::2c4:. It is further proposed to calculate what are the chances of winning. Guided https://www.cardschat.com/odds-for-dummies.php I thought so: For me out is :qh4::qd4::qs4::qc4: + :7h4::7c4::7s4::7d4: + :2h4::3h4::4h4::5h4::6h4::kh4::ah4: = 15.
15 * 4 = 60%. But in video correct answer is 42%. Why? Where is the mistake?



I can't list all the combinations,BUT,as an approximation,there are about 600 combinations of the 14 outs combined with the rest of the deck that could come on the turn and the river.

Only about 250 of them (42%) will result in a winning hand.

For example,if ANY 7 comes on the turn you look like a winner,BUT if another one of the 14 outs comes on the river (another 7) YOU LOSE.

So even though you may have a 60% chance of improving the hand,18% of the 60% improved hands will lose to full house or quads.60-18=42%.

Crude explanation but best I can do without listing all the 2 card combinations and indicating the percentage empirically.
 
Eriktommy163

Eriktommy163

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Thank you all for your answers. it's a pity exact explanation of calculation so no one wrote, but thanks anyway:)
 
CRStals

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You need to understand that this is a very complex calculation not easily described but I'll do my best.

The reason the percentage you calculated doesn't match is you are failing to take into account two possibilities:
- A card comes that further reduces your outs on the river
- You hit your hand on the turn but then your opponent improves on the river

Ex: The turn brings a 2. Your flush and straight outs are no longer good and you can only rely on the Qh and the 7h to win the hand

Ex: The turn brings the 5h, but the river brings the 5s, negating your flush.

To accurately calculate this, you need to establish all 1980 combination of cards, and highlight the combinations where you beat your opponent's hand. This would include hands where you improved more than they did (straight flush to full house), and hands where only you improved. You cannot count hands that you both improved but you still lose (flush or straight to full house) and hands that you never improved, regardless of what they do.

Keep in mind the rule of 4 and 2 is only an approximation and not an exact calculation. When you see the odds on TV they are doing all of these exact calculations.

So while you have 14 outs on the turn, you may have 14 outs on the river, or you may only have 2 outs on the river if they hit a boat, or you may have up to 37 outs on the river if you hit your flush and they need to improve to a full house needing a 2, the case 9 or one of the three cards that would pair the turn.

Make more sense?
 
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