What is push-fold?

killing_random

killing_random

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Total posts
351
I heard about some push-fold solvers and I can't quite imagine what it could teach me, even theoretically, while I'm like playing on preflop for an effective stack with only 5% range or just higher rank hand then my opp, when I have a read, and still lose like 70% of a time with them. If even 5% or higher cards doesn't work, then what suppose to? And why?
 
Ellvira

Ellvira

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Total posts
190
Awards
6
I heard about some push-fold solvers and I can't quite imagine what it could teach me, even theoretically, while I'm like playing on preflop for an effective stack with only 5% range or just higher rank hand then my opp, when I have a read, and still lose like 70% of a time with them. If even 5% or higher cards doesn't work, then what suppose to? And why?
Push-fold is a game already at the final stage and it is applicable to tournaments, in cash games I do not know such a strategy is probably not acceptable, in a tournament at a late stage from a position that would steal blends or not turn into garbage AA this is a push-fold game
 
Schokk

Schokk

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Total posts
110
Hi, as far as I know, the push-fold strategy usually uses, when your stack is less than 5-10 BB and you cannot play post-flop games, due to low stack. That's why the only option you have is to go all-in on preflop or fold, other variants cannot be accepted in this strategy, because big stacks will always rush you on the post-flop and you will fold in any case in 90% situations.
 
GRIN281289

GRIN281289

Legend
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Total posts
1,967
Awards
15
Push-fold is a game in quick tournaments or in the late stage, when there is no opportunity to play and watch, because all the players at the table have a small stack.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,285
Awards
1
Its all explained in this video:

 
Aleks75

Aleks75

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 27, 2021
Total posts
154
Hi!:ciao:
Playing since 2010, I only learned about push-fold and its benefits last year.!A late-stage fush fold facilitates decision-making and preserves nerve cells without allowing tilt.
 
Luvepoker

Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
3,604
Awards
21
US
Push fold it something you would use only late it a tournament when you are short stacked. While its a useful thing to know you should not just use it randomly. You need to be aware of the players left to act or who are already in the hand. You may push a hand you would prefer to fold that is profitable one day and fold stronger hands like AJ based on who is left to act or in the hand. As with just about anything in poker, It just depends.
 
killing_random

killing_random

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Total posts
351
I've made a deposit to *** room, greeted with few welcoming tickets for spins & mtt.
After playing them I made the analysis of preflop all-ins I was involved to and here the results:

All-ins with showdown in total: 28

By showdown (green graph): Loss - 18; Wins - 9; Draw - 1

I was run-overed: 8
I ran over the opponents: 4

By EV, my hand was better (yellow graph): Loss - 14; Wins - 13
These include two times I pushed with "any two" because it's only <5bb left in my stack. So it's save to say my win/loss ratio by EV is 50/50 which makes results easier to consider.

Hitting a board, (with anyting that beat air; pockets counts only if they catch a set, if they just improve to a two pairs or full house without a set, it doesn't count), showdown results irrelevant:
Me - 9 out of 28
Opponents - 19 out of 32 with multipots (twenty two HU + six multipots with three players involved); 17 out of 22 (heads up only)

No wonder why online poker is dying. If I'd come to play just for fun, with that greeting (hitting a board with 32.14% ratio, while my opponents have 77.27%) I would quit right away.
 
J

JimTheBadger

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Total posts
100
Push fold is extremely important and is not just for deep in tournaments but can be used whenever we are sub 25 BBs.

Someone said that you shouldn't follow blindly and that's correct.

Also were not just pushing with hands we think can win all ins with but hands that we want to win blinds with and if we're called have a decent shot at scooping the pot. If your always worried about getting your money in as a fav your playing tournaments wrong.
 
Last edited:
P

ph_il

...
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
9,845
Awards
1
I've made a deposit to *** room, greeted with few welcoming tickets for spins & mtt.
After playing them I made the analysis of preflop all-ins I was involved to and here the results:

All-ins with showdown in total: 28

By showdown (green graph): Loss - 18; Wins - 9; Draw - 1

I was run-overed: 8
I ran over the opponents: 4

By EV, my hand was better (yellow graph): Loss - 14; Wins - 13
These include two times I pushed with "any two" because it's only <5bb left in my stack. So it's save to say my win/loss ratio by EV is 50/50 which makes results easier to consider.

Hitting a board, (with anyting that beat air; pockets counts only if they catch a set, if they just improve to a two pairs or full house without a set, it doesn't count), showdown results irrelevant:
Me - 9 out of 28
Opponents - 19 out of 32 with multipots (twenty two HU + six multipots with three players involved); 17 out of 22 (heads up only)

No wonder why online poker is dying. If I'd come to play just for fun, with that greeting (hitting a board with 32.14% ratio, while my opponents have 77.27%) I would quit right away.
woah, hold up. did you say 28 all-ins? a whole 28 all-ins? i literally had to stop what i was doing to make sure i read this right. you actually have a sample size of 28 all-ins that went to showdown? thats crazy! it's absolutely unheard of. 28 all-ins that went to showdown? this can't be real. is this real? 28?!

and on top of that you lost 2/3 of the 28 all-ins. 18/28 all-ins, you lost. are you kidding me? out of a whole 28 all-ins, you lost 18. i don't think anyone could ever come up with more concrete evidence of something fishy going on with poker than someone losing 18/28 all-ins.
 
killing_random

killing_random

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Total posts
351
woah, hold up. did you say 28 all-ins? a whole 28 all-ins? i literally had to stop what i was doing to make sure i read this right. you actually have a sample size of 28 all-ins that went to showdown? thats crazy! it's absolutely unheard of. 28 all-ins that went to showdown? this can't be real. is this real? 28?!

and on top of that you lost 2/3 of the 28 all-ins. 18/28 all-ins, you lost. are you kidding me? out of a whole 28 all-ins, you lost 18. i don't think anyone could ever come up with more concrete evidence of something fishy going on with poker than someone losing 18/28 all-ins.
Yeah, tell me that tail about how one day I will surely win 18/28 of my preflop pushes.
And hitting a board with 32.14% ratio, while my opponents have 77.27% yeah, lets ignore that part, it's just variance. No one have the variance working in his favor, but the opposite - all over the place. That's totally fine too.
 
P

ph_il

...
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
9,845
Awards
1
Yeah, tell me that tail about how one day I will surely win 18/28 of my preflop pushes.
And hitting a board with 32.14% ratio, while my opponents have 77.27% yeah, lets ignore that part, it's just variance. No one have the variance working in his favor, but the opposite - all over the place. That's totally fine too.
well, it's a good thing poker isn't just about the results of a small sample size. nice of you to throw in some percentages to go with that whopping 28 all-in, really drove your point home.

ooh, i got one. in the last 10 times i got it all-in with aces, i lost 7/10 times. can you believe that? a 30% win ratio with the best hand preflop that should be winning 80% of the time. sure, lets ignore the other possibly thousands of times i got aces all-in the many years i've been playing online poker, and am profiting from, and just focus on a tiny sample size that i hand picked because i happen to have terrible results with it.

conclusion: aces are a bad hand and lose 70% of the time because that's what happened in my last 10 all-in w/ aces that went to showdown. poker is rigged, am i right?
 
Last edited:
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,285
Awards
1
All-ins with showdown in total: 28

By showdown (green graph): Loss - 18; Wins - 9; Draw - 1

We all know, that if we flip a coin 28 times, its supposed to come exactly 14 heads and 14 tails and never any off numbers like 8 heads and 20 tails or 18 heads and 10 tails. That poker site must definitely be rigged, so please withdraw all your money right away and never play there again (end of sarcasm).
 
mina271

mina271

Legend
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Total posts
1,166
Awards
3
DE
I understand that if you want to do a test in poker that you want to play a certain number of hands and then want to see this as evidence that poker is fraud. But you can not only play after the cards in poker you also have to watch the people at the table and you should also include the position where you sit. For example, it may well be possible that one time you win with a strong hand, but another time you have to fold exactly the same hand on the flop or turn. Poker is not just a game of cards, it goes much further and that is why it is not possible to get a really good picture within 28 hands. In poker you should always be flexible and be ready to fold good hands if you have to
 
Zapahlohotrona

Zapahlohotrona

Visionary
Joined
May 4, 2021
Total posts
562
Push-fold, by definition, presupposes the very tactics: the player forgets what it means to call, acting exclusively on preflop - either fold or all-in. When the stack size reaches 10 BB, it is already irrational to raise or limp, since it is already you can't fold your hand. Once the basic concepts are grasped, playing short stacks is easy and effortless.
 
cardplayer52

cardplayer52

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Total posts
1,232
That was 28 all ins that went to showdown. You also need to account for the allins that didnt get called. It makes sense you lose more often when your called. You should be pushing a wider range then they can call you with. Thats the way it works. Push/Fold cant be followed by a chart as most of those charts are made with even stack sizes. But learning how ICM works with different stacks sizes is important. And just because its a positive EV to shove sometimes making a smaller bet with AA can incourage someone to jam on you a hand they may fold to an allin. I myself am looking into short stack GTO play. Seems to me like it could be more profitable in certain spots.
 
Folding in Poker
Top