# What exactly is the definiition of "loose" or "tight"?

#### Stick66

##### Legend
I'm meaning this question towards specifically the VP\$IP% stat. Is there just one number that is the threshold between loose or tight? Or is there a "tight range", an "average range", and a "loose range"?

I bring this up because I've run across this question a couple times recently. Once was in my recent "AA w/rag board" thread and the other time was in a thread about autorating in PokerTracker. It seems there is a difference of opinion around here.

Anyway, is 25% tight or average? Is 35% average or loose? I'm confused.

Here's my latest PT autoratings for further discussion:

Autorate Rules Begin
Aggression:Y

ARI_2 1 WP- Fish
15 4 1.00 Aggression Factor - Total is less than or equal to 1.00
2 4 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is less than or equal to 5.00
1 1 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is greater than 45.00
21 2 12.00 When Folds - Flop % is greater than or equal to 12.00

ARI_12 2 WP+ Calling Stn.
15 4 1.00 Aggression Factor - Total is less than or equal to 1.00
2 4 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is less than or equal to 5.00
1 1 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is greater than 45.00
21 3 12.00 When Folds - Flop % is less than 12.00

ARI_8 3 WAG Caller
15 1 1.00 Aggression Factor - Total is greater than 1.00
2 4 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is less than or equal to 5.00
1 1 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is greater than 45.00

ARI_7 4 LAP Chaser
15 3 1.00 Aggression Factor - Total is less than 1.00
2 1 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is greater than 5.00
1 1 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is greater than 45.00

ARI_10 5 LAG Wild
15 2 1.00 Aggression Factor - Total is greater than or equal to 1.00
2 1 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is greater than 5.00
1 1 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is greater than 45.00

ARI_14 6 sW Flopper
2 4 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is less than or equal to 5.00
1 5 35.00 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 35.00 and 45.00

ARI_5 7 sAP Avg Player
15 3 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is less than 1.50
2 1 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is greater than 5.00
1 5 35.00 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 35.00 and 45.00

ARI_4 8 sAG Avg Aggro
15 2 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is greater than or equal to 1.50
2 1 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is greater than 5.00
1 5 35.00 45.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 35.00 and 45.00

ARI_13 9 WTP- Weak
15 3 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is less than 1.50
2 4 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is less than or equal to 5.00
1 3 35.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is less than 35.00
3 3 25.00 Went To Showdown % is less than 25.00

ARI_9 10 WTP+ Rock
15 3 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is less than 1.50
2 4 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is less than or equal to 5.00
1 3 35.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is less than 35.00
3 2 25.00 Went To Showdown % is greater than or equal to 25.00

ARI_11 11 sTAG Avg Tight
15 2 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is greater than or equal to 1.50
2 4 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is less than or equal to 5.00
1 3 35.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is less than 35.00

ARI_6 12 TsAG Good PF
15 3 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is less than 1.50
2 1 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is greater than 5.00
1 3 35.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is less than 35.00

ARI_15 13 TAG- Good Plyr
15 2 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is greater than or equal to 1.50
2 1 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is greater than 5.00
1 3 35.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is less than 35.00
13 3 7.00 Win Rate Per 100 Hands is less than 7.00

ARI_3 14 TAG+ Excellent
15 2 1.50 Aggression Factor - Total is greater than or equal to 1.50
2 1 5.00 Pre-flop Raise % is greater than 5.00
1 3 35.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is less than 35.00
13 2 7.00 Win Rate Per 100 Hands is greater than or equal to 7.00

Autorate Rules End

#### tenbob

##### Legend
Hmmm

Ok when im not drunk ill have a proper look. You should really be basing you game on how to play against these ranges rather than playing them though.

Illl prob be sober around tuesday

##### Legend
I consider loose / tight:

Loose: Calls blinds every time, takes chances.
Tight: Never calls blinds unless he is the big blind and only calls when he has something. Never calls hoping for a runner runner or a 1 way straight draw, etc.

#### Stick66

##### Legend
Just to remind everyone so far.
I'm meaning this question towards specifically the VP\$IP% stat.
VP\$IP% = Voluntarily Puts Money In Preflop
Meaning the percentage of hands a player voluntarily put money into the pot preflop.

As you can see by my PT autoratings above, the VP\$IP threshold numbers I use are:

Tight = Less than 35% VP\$IP
Average = 35-45%
Loose = More than 45 %

Does anyone have any meaningful opinions on what their own or any published VP\$IP thresholds are?

#### joosebuck

##### Legend
it's all relative. 25% is tight on a table full of 35%+ vpip

#### stormswa

##### Legend
ummm

Just to remind everyone so far.
VP\$IP% = Voluntarily Puts Money In Preflop
Meaning the percentage of hands a player voluntarily put money into the pot preflop.

As you can see by my PT autoratings above, the VP\$IP threshold numbers I use are:

Tight = Less than 35% VP\$IP
Average = 35-45%
Loose = More than 45 %

Does anyone have any meaningful opinions on what their own or any published VP\$IP thresholds are?

ummm ummm ummmm 34% is tight on full ring or 6 max?

because if you are talking full ring and think 35% is tight that is just nuttie, Lag players are concidered like 20% - 35%. Tag players are like 10% - 20%. anyomne over 35% are just maniacs.

6 max it changes a little bit but I think your range is pretty off.

#### Stick66

##### Legend
ummm ummm ummmm 34% is tight on full ring or 6 max?

because if you are talking full ring and think 35% is tight that is just nuttie, Lag players are concidered like 20% - 35%. Tag players are like 10% - 20%. anyomne over 35% are just maniacs.

6 max it changes a little bit but I think your range is pretty off.
Great, Stormy! That's exactly the type of feedback I was looking for.

I kinda based my numbers on a combination of sources, but the one that sticks out in my mind was when I saw Annie Duke on a show once and she said that a good player should see 3 out of 10 flops (full table). I interpreted that to mean 30% VP\$IP, but I guess an unraised pot played from the BB might mess that up. So I guess my thinking is a bit flawed.

I'm interested in more opinions from folks and possibly some sources of reference. Keep 'em coming.

#### Stick66

##### Legend
I'm getting ready to change my autoratings again. Anyone else have opinions on the VP\$IP% stat??

#### gord962

##### Legend
My rankings are similar to Storms - under 20% on a full table is tight, 20 - 35% is semi-loose, above 35% is very loose.