What is a good "M" value in deepstack?

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luckytokenz

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With an M of 15 or lower I revert to a short stack strategy, and anything higher than 25 I would say you can play somewhat tight. But as you get deepstacked, the dynamics dramatically change in your m zone. For one, you can't make moves which are not considered too risky in the begining stages of the game in the late stages because for the simple fact your deepstacked and any mistake might cost you your stack. To play comfortabely TAG deepstacked I would suggest bare min. 50 +, and if you have several LAG's at your table you should lean toward 75+, to handle swings and to have enough chips to allow you some fold equity.
 
Kasanova King

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Harrington rears his ugly head again. An M below 30 is bad. If your down to 10 then your chance of survival is completely out of your hands and you should be call or shoving with nearly any 2 cards. At this point you need one thing only, LUCK!

M is the total cost of playing 1 orbit and is defined as bb+sb+Antes. M is totaly dependant on tournament structure and has little meaning unless you include the size of the antes and the rate at which the blinds increase. It doesn't mean you'll get to play 10 more rounds or even 10 more hands.

Most tournament players these days prefer to assess their health in terms of bb's (Big Blinds not Big Bets) as it relates more closely to the actual cost of playing a hand. A typical raise in the late stages of a tournament will be in the 2.5 to 3 bb range (4 BB's is considered an overbet and is usually indicative of hands that are likely to be problematic post flop like high pairs or 2 high cards). That said, if you bet and plan to CB on the flop the cost of playing 1 hand is going to be in the 6-8 bb range. If you started with a stack size of just 20 bb's, you're going to have to be prepared to invest a minimum of 1/3 of your stack, and that's if you get no post flop action. If you do see any action you may find yourself pot committed with any piece of the flop or strong draw. That's why even 20bb's deep your best option may be to open shove with any playable hand.

30bb's is far from optimal but at least you have the option of getting away from a bad situation. However, just getting involved in a hand that turns sour drops you down into the danger zone.

At 40bb's your sitting pretty and have all your tools at your disposal. You can raise, 3 bet, chase draws, play speculative hands like suited connectors and small pairs or just sit back and wait for premiums.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
kidkvno1

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Harrington rears his ugly head again. An M below 30 is bad. If your down to 10 then your chance of survival is completely out of your hands and you should be call or shoving with nearly any 2 cards. At this point you need one thing only, LUCK!

M is the total cost of playing 1 orbit and is defined as bb+sb+Antes. M is totaly dependant on tournament structure and has little meaning unless you include the size of the antes and the rate at which the blinds increase. It doesn't mean you'll get to play 10 more rounds or even 10 more hands.

Most tournament players these days prefer to assess their health in terms of bb's (Big Blinds not Big Bets) as it relates more closely to the actual cost of playing a hand. A typical raise in the late stages of a tournament will be in the 2.5 to 3 bb range (4 BB's is considered an overbet and is usually indicative of hands that are likely to be problematic post flop like high pairs or 2 high cards). That said, if you bet and plan to CB on the flop the cost of playing 1 hand is going to be in the 6-8 bb range. If you started with a stack size of just 20 bb's, you're going to have to be prepared to invest a minimum of 1/3 of your stack, and that's if you get no post flop action. If you do see any action you may find yourself pot committed with any piece of the flop or strong draw. That's why even 20bb's deep your best option may be to open shove with any playable hand.

30bb's is far from optimal but at least you have the option of getting away from a bad situation. However, just getting involved in a hand that turns sour drops you down into the danger zone.

At 40bb's your sitting pretty and have all your tools at your disposal. You can raise, 3 bet, chase draws, play speculative hands like suited connectors and small pairs or just sit back and wait for premiums.
Ok i really have to read Harrington's books, if i can find the cd that has then on it..
Thanks, i will keep this in my mind, the next game i play....
 
LuckyChippy

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In tournaments I hate reaching 20bb's, you're virtually committed to every pot you play because if you don't win it you're in trouble.

If you think about cash game play, SS'ers play 20bb stacks with a shove or fold mentality because it's the correct way to play that size stack. I know there are other factors involved in tournament play but it shows that 20bb's is a trouble situation and should be played aggressively, not as the safe zone some are saying it is.

EDIT: Oh and if Harrington says it then you don't need to listen to me, he knows his stuff better than most people on the planet.
 
dg1267

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In tournaments I hate reaching 20bb's, you're virtually committed to every pot you play because if you don't win it you're in trouble.

If you think about cash game play, SS'ers play 20bb stacks with a shove or fold mentality because it's the correct way to play that size stack. I know there are other factors involved in tournament play but it shows that 20bb's is a trouble situation and should be played aggressively, not as the safe zone some are saying it is.

EDIT: Oh and if Harrington says it then you don't need to listen to me, he knows his stuff better than most people on the planet.

Not a completely bad way to put it, lucky!:D
 
kmixer

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Hey DG I found another cool M calculator that i am gonna play around with in addition to that one that we got off that website.

Here is a video of it in action.

YouTube- QMCalculator

It's a little more work but the ability to manually add numbers into these fields should make it more accurate and also good for starting chip stack which relates more back towards the topic of this thread.
 
dg1267

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Kmixer, you must know I'm a gadget guy. I have a feeling I'm gonna have more M calculators than I have poker clients in a few weeks! LOL

But thanks... I like that one.
 
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