*Poker thought experiment* Suited connectors pre-flop

[ericklam92]

I’m gonna lay out two similar hold’em scenarios and I want you folks to answer the questions that follow them. I will give my own answers, but I want to see some other peoples’ first.

(Scenario 1 On a 9-handed table, you have suited connectors pre-flop. The blinds are fairly high but you have a sizeable stack to gamble with, and you’re in early position.

Q1) What is your action?

Q2) Is your action influenced by how high your suited connectors are?

…
(Scenario 2 You have the same suited connectors pre-flop on a 9-handed board, and the blinds are still as high, but this time you’re in late position and you’re a little short-stacked.

Q1) Suppose someone raises before you, for about a third of your pot. What is your action?

Q2) Now suppose no one raises before you. What is your action?

…
Final question: Suppose you find yourself in either of these scenarios when the table is one player short of the pay-out cut-off. How, if at all, might this affect your action?

 

[akhilbansal]

Scenario 1: With large stack
1) I generally call suited connectors in the range 5% (for lower connectors 5 and below), 25% (for medium 6-10,J), and almost 80% for higher ones.
2) Yes, the probability of betting increases if the suited connector is higher.

Scenario 2: With short stack
1) Mostly fold except in case of AK/AQ, may be AJ, KQ. Again probability ranges from 75% to 25%.
2) Fold for lower and medium connectors, almost always call for AK/AQ, for AJ/KQ may be try to bet some 25-40% of the time.

If on bubble, I try to steal as much as possible with large stack so probability range is close to 100% except for if I am sure that SB and BB have larger stack and they might try to bully me back in which case I dial down the probability range (and bet size) to 75%. With short stack, it is almost always a fold.

 

[Dobbler1]

The devil is in the details.

Look at scenario one. "Early Position" "Fairly High" and Sizable stack" all include a range, and yes, the value of the connectors does matter. I wouldn't, as a rule, even 100BB deep, open with 23suited from UTG. I would sometimes open UTG+3 with 78 suited 100bb deep.

Scenario 2 depends on all sorts of things, including player reads You can't open raise for 1/3 pot most of the time, because the pot is just 1.5-3 BB depending on ante, and you need to either limp or open with 2+BB. Here's scenario 2a - Loose aggressive player on the button has been stealing blinds at a high rate. They've got 25BB, I have 11BB. They open for 2.2BB and I have 89suited in the SB. I shove a portion of the time, and fold the rest. Scenario 2b - everything the same except I'm in the BB. I still shove sometimes (much less frequently), but call most of the time and never fold. Run the exact same situations with nits or tight aggressive players or maniacs, change the stack sizes, the positions, raise sizes, and the answer changes.

Also, stack size and blind size is always relative. The only possible (but not really) exception is if I'm in a cash game for a bigger buy in than my bankroll should allow for (which I never should be). Otherwise, I just care about how deep I am in BBs and how much I could loose (the biggest stack size of the people acting after me). I suck at ICM calculations, but the general reasoning is not to risk your stack on the bubble unless you have are at risk of blinding out. As a rule, shoving with a small stack, higher cards are more valuable than suited connectors. When you don't have to consider post-flop playability, K5off is a slight favorite to 89suited. Otherwise, there's lots of incentive to fold your way into the money.

 

[spunka]

as always in poker it depends.....
And here you have not given us a clue about how lose or thight the other players are.
and is the suited connectores J+10 or 3+4 or AK ........

 

[georgi krastev]

(Scenario 1 On a 9-handed table, you have suited connectors pre-flop. The blinds are fairly high but you have a sizeable stack to gamble with, and you’re in early position.

Q1) What is your action?

I'm fold...

Q2) Is your action influenced by how high your suited connectors are?

Nope...

Scenario 2 You have the same suited connectors pre-flop on a 9-handed board, and the blinds are still as high, but this time you’re in late position and you’re a little short-stacked.

Q1) Suppose someone raises before you, for about a third of your pot. What is your action?

I'm fold...

Q2) Now suppose no one raises before you. What is your action?

I'm fold...

Final question: Suppose you find yourself in either of these scenarios when the table is one player short of the pay-out cut-off. How, if at all, might this affect your action?

Makes me to fold...

 

[skaterick]

to Dobbler .... i think' 1/3 of your pot' means somebody raised to one third of your short stack in this question

 

[Dobbler1]

to Dobbler .... i think' 1/3 of your pot' means somebody raised to one third of your short stack in this question

Yes, that makes sense.

 

[eetenor]

I’m gonna lay out two similar hold’em scenarios and I want you folks to answer the questions that follow them. I will give my own answers, but I want to see some other peoples’ first.

(Scenario 1 On a 9-handed table, you have suited connectors pre-flop. The blinds are fairly high but you have a sizeable stack to gamble with, and you’re in early position.

Q1) What is your action?

Q2) Is your action influenced by how high your suited connectors are?

…
(Scenario 2 You have the same suited connectors pre-flop on a 9-handed board, and the blinds are still as high, but this time you’re in late position and you’re a little short-stacked.

Q1) Suppose someone raises before you, for about a third of your pot. What is your action?

Q2) Now suppose no one raises before you. What is your action?

…
Final question: Suppose you find yourself in either of these scenarios when the table is one player short of the pay-out cut-off. How, if at all, might this affect your action?

S1 The info that we need is not present in the set-up- we have a good stack size is important- but how the table is playing is way more important than that- What are the stack sizes of our V? Are we targeting the blinds? Are we targeting an LP player who folds to 4 bets too often? Will the table mostly fold to an EP open? Has the table been treating us as tight? Is this an open to showdown for FGS?

Q1 Cannot be answered without the above data- based on a strategic action---only on a hey lets gamble so open - if all we have is stack size

Q2 Hey lets gamble - means we open any 2 suited after all 23 wins sometimes

Q2 with strategy----- We open 54 and above ( if we open but why would we?) This is tourny strategy not bleeding chips OOP is the best strategy- the blinds go up holding on to a stack is important
Why 54 and not 43-we can make nut straights vs wheel ace 2 pair hands- -
We are very careful with 98 and above as we can be dominated by better 9's and and 8's and straights etc etc - and very careful with all flushes multiway.

S2 Just fold- connectors are drawing hands and we are short so drawing is -EV---unless you can win the blinds 80% of the time you open.

FQ S1 play but do not go broke- If Bubble pressure is real on your table.
S2 Just fold - take the money then gamble

 

[jose_saleh]

S1: If I get low conectors, probably called it, expecting not to loose much. with something like KQ suited I would big raise and probably call any raise 😆.

S2: since Im lack of chips I would go all in even with low conectors after a raise, if no one raises I would just call it even with AK.