Most possible outs?

[Peterr211]

What is the largest number of outs you can have at any one time (after flop, after turn)?

Here's what I can come up with for after the turn . . .


Holding Ks Kd
Flop 10s Js Qs
Turn Kc

For the river, you have
1 - K = Quads
3 - Q = FH
3 - J = FH
3 - 10 = FH
9 - spades = Flush
3 - A = Str8 (or str8 flush)
3 - 9 = Str8 (or str8 flush)

25 - Total Outs

Is it possible to have more?

 

[Mase31683]

If you're on a draw, what does opponent have on the turn? Has to be either a straight or flush for your set to need outs.

If he has the flush, your outs just got whacked pretty solidly. If he has the 9, then you have 21 outs. The aces split the pot, and he has one 9, so there's only 2 left. That's 10 FH/quad outs, 9 flushes, and 2 nines.

The biggest draw that you'll ever really see is 21. This one is pretty specific too, but a tad less so than the original one. You have to have KQs and catch an open ended straight draw with a flush draw. If you're up against a single pair holding (Jacks or lower), then you have 9 flush cards, 6 more straight cards, and 6 overcards to hit a winning one pair for 21 total outs.

 

[only_bridge]

Ok, you are both a little wrong here. If you op has 4d4h, and you have JsQs, and flop reads 9s10s10d, then you have 2 for straightflush, 7 for flush, 6 for straight, and 9 for higher 2pair, thats 24, but then you have to exclude 4s(gives opponent a boat), so the maximum is 23 outs.

 

[Peterr211]

Hmm, I hadn't really thought about what my opponent had (which may be one of my problems . . . . . . . . . . . . . ). I was simply wondering what the most cards there could be that improved your hand.

 

[bestoboth]

Hmm, I hadn't really thought about what my opponent had (which may be one of my problems . . . . . . . . . . . . . ). I was simply wondering what the most cards there could be that improved your hand.

LOL that is one of my problems too... I always forget about what THEY could have (not just what could beat me but about how that could affect my own draws as well)... LOL

Working on it currently... one game where this seems crucial and yet almost overwhelming at the same time is PLO and PLO8... I think this is part of the reason i have such issues with these games... althought better at PLO these days.

Always so much to bloody THINK about! LOL

 

[pokermatch]

Dude, you are a little confused about the meaning of outs... Outs are the
cards that you could catch in order to improve your hand IN ORDER TO
beat your opponents current BETTER HAND. So in order to have outs
you need to have your hand and there has to be another hand challenging
yours and currently beating yours. In the example you gave us, your
opponent would have to have either a straight or something better in order
to be beating you cause you have the best trio possible. So this means that
the 25 outs you have there can not be 25 outs, but infact can be at most
whatever the calculation is after you disregard a certain straight card which
could possibly give you and him the same straight... Thats the best
possible amount of outs in this current situation for you.

 

[phatmatt840]

I'm not sure how much this helps the thread, but I have read that having 15 outs after the flop will usually put you ahead. I only mention this because 20 outs is a ton!!! More toward the question I think somewhere around 20 or 21 outs is more like the cap that can be available.

 

[Peterr211]

I guess the question I really had was, "What is the highest possible number of cards that will improve my current hand?"

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

Holding Ks Kd
Flop 10s Js Qs
Turn Kc

For the river, you have
1 - K = Quads
3 - Q = FH
3 - J = FH
3 - 10 = FH
9 - spades = Flush
3 - A = Str8 (or str8 flush)
3 - 9 = Str8 (or str8 flush)

25 - Total Outs

Is it possible to have more?

Typically with a flop like that you are already behind... alot of players will play suited aces if not suited connectors, these are not very profitable. In theory the only outs you have for a 100% guaranteed win are:

Kh, As, 9s which give you a highly unlikely hand to hit on the river

With six handed play which leaves you with 3 out of 38 cards 12 unknown whole cards, 2 burnt from the deck

a flop like that is going to either have a lot of fireworks or none at all. the texture of the board is displeasing and the only person who will call a raise at that point is someone with a suited ace or the ace high flush draw.

If they have As 5s

They have you beat on the flop

Theoretically these outs only help their ace high flush they're a huge favor on the flop: 2s 3s 4s 6s 7s 8s 2c 3c 4c 5c 6c 7c 8c 9c 2d 3d 4d 5d 6d 7d 8d 9d 2h 3h 4h 5h 6h 7h 8h 9h

Scare Cards for the Ace High flush: Jh Jd Jc Qh Qd Qc Th Td Tc 9s Kh

Weve all been there... holding the nut flush and the board pairs on the river

The ace high flush is a huge favor to win here on the turn. you have a few outs but your opponent would love to see a red card on the river