Keeping a BR

[MicroStakesManiac]

This thread might inspire me to issue a $10 BR challenge -- first one to $200 wins. No re-stakes! (You bust to zero and you have to freeroll your way out!)

Or even tougher, a "Jesus Challenge" -- $0 to $200.

Any interest?

 

[ben_rhyno]

Wow I can't believe I've had so many helpful replies!
I suppose I play cash games because sometimes i go on tilt ( or used to ) and put a $5 on the 10/25c tables and made $15/$20 quickly, but then think I can play at these high limits, which i know i can't continue.
I'm going to stick to $1.10 DoN's, $1.10 MTT's and $1.10 STT's and below until I get to at least $50. The reason I want to play the MTT's is because I like how much play I can get for $1.10, even though I usually make the cash, it's often only the first few levels of cash like $1.70 return. And I can waste that in 1 hand at the cash tables unfortunately.
I am up for any bankroll challenge on a side note! Bring it on!
(I've also just ordered Harrington on hold em vol. 1 and the sklansky theory of poker book)
Thanks again for the replies

 

[joe steady]

I like the MTT's also, it's fun to go deep, makes up for all the times you just win your buy-in back, but I like the cash tables for a little more consistent $$$, even if it's only on the 1c/2c tables.
I'd be up for the BR challenge, sounds like fun.

 

[salim271]

1. Jesus is a beast and his conquest took months of patience.
2. Cash games have too much variance to play with ten dollars.
3. MTTs are notoriously difficult to cash consistently in, especially with no experience.
4. Get bigger roll, set yourself up to fail a few times, learn from the experience and move on.
5. Read books/articles/forums. It can't hurt and usually helps.
6. Play freerolls (not as much for cash as for getting used to being patient and building playing stamina for long tournies.)

 

[thepokerkid123]

1. Jesus is a beast and his conquest took months of patience.
2. Cash games have too much variance to play with ten dollars.
3. MTTs are notoriously difficult to cash consistently in, especially with no experience.
4. Get bigger roll, set yourself up to fail a few times, learn from the experience and move on.
5. Read books/articles/forums. It can't hurt and usually helps.
6. Play freerolls (not as much for cash as for getting used to being patient and building playing stamina for long tournies.)

This sums it up well. The Chris Ferguson $1 to 10k thing was awesome and inspiring but he's Chris Ferguson who's knowledge of the game and self control are way beyond most (if not all) micro grinders.

But your 2nd point about cash games being too high variance is wrong imo. Yes, with a $10 roll even at $2nl you've got to expect to go bust but as long as that $10 can be reloaded next month treating it as a bigger effective roll is fine. Other games may be more suitable (SNGs are commonly used as BR builders), I'm not sure, but variance shouldn't be the reason not to play cash.

 

[salim271]

This sums it up well. The Chris Ferguson $1 to 10k thing was awesome and inspiring but he's Chris Ferguson who's knowledge of the game and self control are way beyond most (if not all) micro grinders.

But your 2nd point about cash games being too high variance is wrong imo. Yes, with a $10 roll even at $2nl you've got to expect to go bust but as long as that $10 can be reloaded next month treating it as a bigger effective roll is fine. Other games may be more suitable (SNGs are commonly used as BR builders), I'm not sure, but variance shouldn't be the reason not to play cash.

Eh I suppose if you're going to reload... but honestly 2nl with 10 dollars is five buyins... i can go through that in 2 hours... much less a month. in fact, i did go through 10 in two hours when I first started playing lmao.

But cash games arent my specialty and I dont bother trying to pretend i know all their idiosyncrasies

 

[cardplayer52]

i think pokerstars is the best site for a BR of $10. they actually have buyins for tourneys for as little as 1cent. but with $10 i'd stick the the 25 cent 45man games(or 90mans) until your rolled enough for the $1.20 9man SNGs(maybe about $30). i wouldnt start playing the 1c/2c until you got atleast about $50 or so. i've been trying to build my pokerstars bankroll from a very little amount too.

 

[MicroStakesManiac]

This sums it up well. The Chris Ferguson $1 to 10k thing was awesome and inspiring but he's Chris Ferguson who's knowledge of the game and self control are way beyond most (if not all) micro grinders.

With all due respect -- that's exactly the point. To be good at poker, you have to learn patience and acquire the knowledge to build your bankroll.

Not saying that you have to start with $0 or hit $10K by a certain date, but emulating what JF did is a pretty good model for getting better.

And anybody can do it on a smaller scale -- I did. I took it as personal challenge. And I failed many times when I jumped up too quickly and lost too much (usually after some nice wins that "proved" I was ready for the next level).

The bottom line is -- if you can't beat the micros, and you can't learn to be patient about doing it, then you probably aren't going to make it.

If poker were quick & easy, we'd all be rich.

 

[PokerBrat010]

do you believe chris ferguson really done this because the way they play at the lower stakes up to nl25 they give out to many bad beats and he use this own account or somebody elses?

 

[salim271]

do you believe chris ferguson really done this because the way they play at the lower stakes up to nl25 they give out to many bad beats and he use this own account or somebody elses?

It took him like 10 months to get anywhere past like 200 dollars, he did it himself.

 

[MicroStakesManiac]

Eh I suppose if you're going to reload... but honestly 2nl with 10 dollars is five buyins... i can go through that in 2 hours... much less a month. in fact, i did go through 10 in two hours when I first started playing lmao.

But cash games arent my specialty and I dont bother trying to pretend i know all their idiosyncrasies

I think it's an interesting question -- cash vs. SNG vs. MTT -- as the best route.

I would agree that if you seem to be better at one game vs. the others, that you should stick to that game. I tend to play cash games b/c I often can't commit the time to MTTs (min. 2.5 hours, for the smaller fields) and sometimes even SNGs (75 minutes).

I found SNGs were the easiest to beat. They're more predictably played than .02 and if you follow the Moshman script, you'll cash a high %.

Having pretty much command over all the micro games, I would go the cash route b/c its more lucrative in a shorter period of time. But it does take more skill, especially post-flop, than SNG/MTTs.

Until you can **thoroughly** prove you can beat it, I would also buy-in for the min. in cash games, to try to limit variance. What I found for myself was -- when I bought in short, I played a more patient and all-around better game.

I completely understand why you would buy in deep, but that presumes you are skilled enough to play deep. When I first started, I wasn't, and I learned the hard way to drop my buy-in till I was good enough to handle deeper play.

 

[MicroStakesManiac]

do you believe chris ferguson really done this because the way they play at the lower stakes up to nl25 they give out to many bad beats and he use this own account or somebody elses?

I **believe** he did it because I think if he cheated (that's what you're implying):

• then the downside of getting caught would so far out-weigh the upside that he would never do it (he is one of the "faces of Full Tilt")
• and why would he cheat? He has nothing really to prove, being one of the acknowledged & proven great players in the game.
• this may be perception, but he always comes across as perfectly honest and upstanding. Not a gambler or extreme risk-taking personality or someone who lacks integrity or personal control.

 

[PokerBrat010]

I **believe** he did it because I think if he cheated (that's what you're implying):

• then the downside of getting caught would so far out-weigh the upside that he would never do it (he is one of the "faces of Full Tilt")
• and why would he cheat? He has nothing really to prove, being one of the acknowledged & proven great players in the game.
• this may be perception, but he always comes across as perfectly honest and upstanding. Not a gambler or extreme risk-taking personality or someone who lacks integrity or personal control.

but you cant be 100% sure can you.
A) you dont have access to this account so you dont know he ever deposited
B) do you know anybody who played against him or heard of anyone seeing him at nl2,nl5,nl 10 because i neva
C) i saw he has a nice stake at full tilt as in hes a stake holder
D this may be perception, but he always comes across as perfectly honest and upstanding. Not a gambler or extreme risk-taking personality or someone who lacks integrity or personal control.

YOU ARE COMPLETLY CORRECT i meet him before at a poker tournament
E) never said he was a cheater

 

[MicroStakesManiac]

Agree that you didn't say he was a cheater, but you implied that he was not on the up and up. I think he is, but I don't know that he is. I don't know anything, really, 100%. How do I know 100% I'm not a butterfly dreaming I'm a human being? I don't, 100%.

 

[ben_rhyno]

I dropped my balance to $0.50, and entered the 1c hyper turbo tournament, and got $0.40 back. Nice start.
Than entered a $0.10 aswell, and made 7th, $1.30 return, again a good start. I'm going to keep at these and freerolls and see where i get.

$0.50 to $???

 

[joe steady]

sorry you dropped to .50, but at least you're moving in a positive direction again, keep it up!
I remember reading an article by Chris F. a long time ago, and he said that the whole reason for doing the $0-$10,000 challenge was because he heard lots of people tell him they went from $50 to $500 or $100 to $1000 or whatever, but they always ended up going broke, and he wanted to illustrate the idea of consistent money management. I have no reason to disbelieve him, but even if he didn't make it to $10K, he still makes a good point - develop a plan and stick to it. I know a lot of people say "Yeah, but with ten bucks???" It's never too soon to start a good habit. I guess I look at it like this - I don't need poker as a source of income, and I like the "something-from-nothing" challenge, plus I have the time to grind out the micro's/freerolls. As my skills improve, hopefully my bankroll will, too, and then I'll move up. I still set goals for myself (# of hands per month, read a poker book and try to start applying a new technique, etc), review hands to see what went wrong or what I did right - all things you should be doing at higher stakes, even though I'm not there yet, but it can't hurt to be doing what they do "up there". I agree with MicroStakesManiac, you should be beating the level you're at before you move up. I'm not ready to take on a ten-tabling reg at $25nl just yet, so it doesn't bother me that I'm not rolled for that level because I'm not ready for it anyway.

 

[Poker Orifice]

So basically, I can't build a decent roll from $10?

Sure you can!!! THere's a few sites I've built up to over $200 & $300+, starting with a $2 freeroll cash (could've built them higher but rarely even play on those sites anymore).
Slow & Steady.
Whether or not you play more profitably at higher buyin SNG's doesn't really matter because as mentioned > you're not rolled for them (yet). I actually played a bunch of 10cent STT SNG's one one site & actually built up from them.(no, it wasn't Pokerstars, was back on Doyles a couple of years ago).
Realistically you need to figure out how to deposit more, OR, just be super strict and make a go of it with the $10.
I also recommed playing either one or the other >> cash or SNG, not both.

 

[joeaugie]

Lots of good advice here.

Key words:

PATIENCE (the good situations will come, you can't force anything in poker)
NICHE (focus on one game type)
VARIANCE (long break-even and downswings happen)
POST (here at cardschat! pick out a few hands per week...not bad beats)
LEARN (read....some great stickies here!)
GRIND (volume=experience.....set volume goals)

If you are trying to start with $10, it is going to be tough not to go broke. Having said that, if you focus on cash games...buy in with $1 at .01/.02 NL and play tight and grind away. (Hope you don't run too poorly.)

Otherwise, only deposit more if you can afford it.....don't look at it as a part-time job...you are in the learning stages and gathering experience. Start a blog, post hands in forums, be accountable to yourself...in the end...there is no magical formula to succeed outside of hard work and patience.

 

[ben_rhyno]

Thanks joeaugie, some great advice. Yeh I can't really afford anymore, and have just been running poorly lately. hopefully, my luck will change soon and i will become a winning player