How to get good value off the nuts?

[baudib1]

Some people will have elastic ranges on certain boards.

 

[dj11]

OP did not mention what stakes this scenario takes place at.

I will venture a guess that in the micro games the bet bet bet approach is more valuable than any misinformation we can throw out at that level. The hesitation on the turn bet, which I like, stands a better chance of getting a villain to commit, via bluff, at a higher stakes game.

In either case, I would think we want to baffle our villains, either with bullshit, or bets that do NOT fill in a storyline, in order to get them more involved in the hand, and thus donate more to the pot. We want them to think they are controlling the action at a higher stakes game whereas in the micros they generally won't have a clue.

The 3 bullet strategy, amongst players with 1/2 a brain, is not something we, with another 1/2 brain, want to trifle with often. So the hesitation on the turn can induce a bluff raise at us. We could c/r but will likely miss out on another opportunity to let our villain hang himself on the river. We offered some misinformation with the turn check, now we need to have the heart (not a problem in the nuts case) of seeing it thru.

You may not want to use either of these strategies all the time, alternating between them helps keep your readability at the minimum.

 

[watchtowel]

If you are cbetting most of your' hands on the flop (which you should) then cbet your' monsters. They are much more disguised than if you check - raise or check call and raise the turn. Playing it aggressively on the flop like the rest of your' hands means people won't know when you hit a monster, a good hand or whiff.

Slowplaying is only a good idea when you know your' opponent won't call a bet but might improve on the turn / river and then we can extract value. It is also only a good idea when it is safe to give a free card without letting him draw out on you.

This is standard how I play but obviously situational so you got to be ready to adjust and "standard" play.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

OP did not mention what stakes this scenario takes place at.

I will venture a guess that in the micro games the bet bet bet approach is more valuable than any misinformation we can throw out at that level. The hesitation on the turn bet, which I like, stands a better chance of getting a villain to commit, via bluff, at a higher stakes game.

In either case, I would think we want to baffle our villains, either with bullshit, or bets that do NOT fill in a storyline, in order to get them more involved in the hand, and thus donate more to the pot. We want them to think they are controlling the action at a higher stakes game whereas in the micros they generally won't have a clue.

The 3 bullet strategy, amongst players with 1/2 a brain, is not something we, with another 1/2 brain, want to trifle with often. So the hesitation on the turn can induce a bluff raise at us. We could c/r but will likely miss out on another opportunity to let our villain hang himself on the river. We offered some misinformation with the turn check, now we need to have the heart (not a problem in the nuts case) of seeing it thru.

You may not want to use either of these strategies all the time, alternating between them helps keep your readability at the minimum.

TBH DJ this is completely wrong.

If you feel that villian will not call many turn bets, then the key to beating him is not to slowplay the nuts. The key to beating him is bluffing turns.

If you truely play an agressive style, the one thing you must must must do is value bet every single time you can make a value bet. Doing this properly increases your betting frequency. When you bet a lot, people start playing back at you, so you do get the nuts paid off.

What your trying to say is that if the turn is checked through then villian will be shoving on the river. Why? If you have air then villian does not have to bet all that big to make you fold it. You have created a samll pot by checking the turn, a river minraise should be enough to make you fold air if you are bluffing but if villian has a SD hand he is far more likely to call than to turn his hand into a bluff.

If you have air, ace high is the best hand so why would he shove when he can call a small bet with ace high?

You are trying to induce small bets from hands that wouldnt normally call than to get stacks from hands that would call .. and if you are aggressive people call lighter and lighter.

At higher stakes games people do not miss value with the nuts unless they have very specific reads on villian, i.e. they know for a fact villian has a tendency to shove rivers when the turn has been checked. Has this been noted or is it something you are just hoping will happen? If so why will it happen?

You must get value. If you play a big hand in a way that prevents you from getting stacks in on the river then you have misplayed that hand.

 

[baudib1]

Stu nails it.

Basically if you flop the nuts you need to put money in the pot. It doesn't mean you bet so much to chase people away but if there is betting to you, you raise; if it's checked to you, you bet. If you're first to act, you should donk unless you have a very good reason to believe someone will bet for you.

You should always put a lot of money in if you have the nuts but not the immortal nuts (i.e. straights/flushes on scary boards) on boards that hit your opponent. This is especially true if it's a board that you would like to bluff/semibluff.