How do you put limpers on a range?

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Desiatpoker

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What's the best statergie for playing against rags who mostly limp with anything but without AAKKAks. Like how you put them on a range. They never show any strength? :confused:
 
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eetenor

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What's the best statergie for playing against rags who mostly limp with anything but without AAKKAks. Like how you put them on a range. They never show any strength? :confused:


Thank U 4 Posting.

You have to keep their range wide and include strong hands that U think should have shown strength. Remember they are seldom bluffing or semi-bluffing or thin value betting so we can bet fold more hands when they do take strong actions.

We are max betting our really strong hands and small betting or checking our weaker made hands.

We are also going to try to realize our equity more when in position by checking behind when we have say second pair plus draw hands as the only fold equity we have is when they miss.

Remember we will be getting to rivers more often vs this player type so 1 pair hands go way down in value and thin value betting OOP becomes -ev. bluff less as well.

As I stated above we must max value bet when we have strong hands on the river as these villains usually will call thinking that they have trapped us or we are bluffing them which we seldom do.

These are the basics, you will have to take notes on your player pool to get an idea of how your villains actually play. If you gather enough data you will notice patterns.

Hope this helps

:):)
 
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Desiatpoker

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Thank U 4 Posting.

You have to keep their range wide and include strong hands that U think should have shown strength. Remember they are seldom bluffing or semi-bluffing or thin value betting so we can bet fold more hands when they do take strong actions.

We are max betting our really strong hands and small betting or checking our weaker made hands.

We are also going to try to realize our equity more when in position by checking behind when we have say second pair plus draw hands as the only fold equity we have is when they miss.

Remember we will be getting to rivers more often vs this player type so 1 pair hands go way down in value and thin value betting OOP becomes -ev. Bluff less as well.

As I stated above we must max value bet when we have strong hands on the river as these villains usually will call thinking that they have trapped us or we are bluffing them which we seldom do.

These are the basics, you will have to take notes on your player pool to get an idea of how your villains actually play. If you gather enough data you will notice patterns.

Hope this helps

:):)

Thanks this helps alot, so will you cbet with JJ from from SB when you have a reg who calls anything on BB, just 2 players everyone folded and what's your plan if he call behind and you missed the flop and turn but there is a A on flop?
 
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eetenor

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Thanks this helps alot, so will you cbet with JJ from from SB when you have a reg who calls anything on BB, just 2 players everyone folded and what's your plan if he call behind and you missed the flop and turn but there is a A on flop?


Thank U 4 Responding.

As I stated we have to take notes on these villains in order to know exactly what to do but again here are some basics.

If BB truly calls any 2 cards we need to know what they do with 1 pair vs 2 pair +? Also will they mistakenly bet worse for value? Remember we are playing to the river most hands so we have to construct a range vs wide range to the river strategy. Which involves betting bigger but less often.

It is great if they only raise 2 pair + because we can always dump our JJ. So we would C-bet on most flops and if villain is chasing all flops bet 1/2 pot or more, fold to any raises the 2pair + kind and then play each street based on the board. We have to remember though any card higher than ours could be a hit for this villain. So once an over card comes we make smaller value bets 1/3 pot or even min bets. If this villain is playing any 2 we do not have to stack them in one hand we can get 1/4 of their stack in 4 hands and risk a lot less.

Think of it like pit games in the casino. We have the edge as they are weak more often than strong. So we want to play more pots of a smaller size when we are not dominating. This is the lose the least win the most scenario you here about.


We also have to play low boards with caution as our villain hits those boards as well. However we do not want to be fearful. So we C-bet low boards as well and then pot control if necessary.

We are going to lose pots to this player but we want to be in most pots this player plays as we should have the edge. Just remember a player like this is just holding our chips for us when they win.

Again with the note thing. We have to make sure our read is right. If we make exploitative plays on incorrect reads we are going to crush ourselves. So this villain better actually be playing any 2 not just playing 8h4h because we min raised from the SB with JJ.

Again just the basics here you may wish to study range construction flop- turn -river.

Hope this helps

:):)
 
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Desiatpoker

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Thank U 4 Responding.

As I stated we have to take notes on these villains in order to know exactly what to do but again here are some basics.

If BB truly calls any 2 cards we need to know what they do with 1 pair vs 2 pair +? Also will they mistakenly bet worse for value? Remember we are playing to the river most hands so we have to construct a range vs wide range to the river strategy. Which involves betting bigger but less often.

It is great if they only raise 2 pair + because we can always dump our JJ. So we would C-bet on most flops and if villain is chasing all flops bet 1/2 pot or more, fold to any raises the 2pair + kind and then play each street based on the board. We have to remember though any card higher than ours could be a hit for this villain. So once an over card comes we make smaller value bets 1/3 pot or even min bets. If this villain is playing any 2 we do not have to stack them in one hand we can get 1/4 of their stack in 4 hands and risk a lot less.

Think of it like pit games in the casino. We have the edge as they are weak more often than strong. So we want to play more pots of a smaller size when we are not dominating. This is the lose the least win the most scenario you here about.


We also have to play low boards with caution as our villain hits those boards as well. However we do not want to be fearful. So we C-bet low boards as well and then pot control if necessary.

We are going to lose pots to this player but we want to be in most pots this player plays as we should have the edge. Just remember a player like this is just holding our chips for us when they win.

Again with the note thing. We have to make sure our read is right. If we make exploitative plays on incorrect reads we are going to crush ourselves. So this villain better actually be playing any 2 not just playing 8h4h because we min raised from the SB with JJ.

Again just the basics here you may wish to study range construction flop- turn -river.

Hope this helps

:):)
Thanks man so what happened I have JJ and I bet 5x and this guy called with A3o an d flopped a A and I lost 2 streets betting and then I was on btn with QQ and raise 5x again he again called with A9o and flopped a A again on me and took my stack 50 BB, I was so pissed of wasn't to sure what I was doing wrong. I'm new so still learning but then I moved down to. 05 and doubled my stack. I'm losing to same regs everyday even I'm playing 13 to 15% and mostly raising with big with big hands but people keep getting lucky I'm in doubt if I'm wrong or if it's just poker. I player. 25 and. 50 just like one off and won decent, because I'm only rolled for. 10 so mostly play.10 and loss to same regs. I won at. 5. 2 also but just stuck at. 10. I do good on double or nothing and that's how I keep my bankroll up but just can't won't at. 10. I play very tight
 
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eetenor

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Thanks man so what happened I have JJ and I bet 5x and this guy called with A3o an d flopped a A and I lost 2 streets betting and then I was on btn with QQ and raise 5x again he again called with A9o and flopped a A again on me and took my stack 50 BB, I was so pissed of wasn't to sure what I was doing wrong. I'm new so still learning but then I moved down to. 05 and doubled my stack. I'm losing to same regs everyday even I'm playing 13 to 15% and mostly raising with big with big hands but people keep getting lucky I'm in doubt if I'm wrong or if it's just poker. I player. 25 and. 50 just like one off and won decent, because I'm only rolled for. 10 so mostly play.10 and loss to same regs. I won at. 5. 2 also but just stuck at. 10. I do good on double or nothing and that's how I keep my bankroll up but just can't won't at. 10. I play very tight


Thank U 4 Responding.

Ok this is what I said about properly analyzing your situation.

A3 A9 is not an any two cards player, it is an any ACE player. That is a completely different strategy from what I suggested.

VS an any Ace player we do not bet Axx boards aggressively. As you found out. Why? Because any ACE players are not calling 96 off in BB for 5x they are only calling All AX and other premium hands.

5x with QQ and Axx flops we are looking to get one value bet at most or check down vs an Any Ace player. That bet does not come on the flop.

Then we need to know if villain is passive or not. So if villain leads turn and is truly passive we fold QQ. If the turn bet is small and villain will check river we can call because you are never 100% sure of all villains actions.

Do not bluff as any Ace players do not fold Ax. When we have AK-10 we go for max value. when we have an over pair we go for max value as A9 is not folding 9xx boards.

The tricky Ax hand is the A3 if the board comes 542 532 we have to be a little more careful because of the straight cards working with the ACE.

Again this is about note taking.

We need to know how our villains actually play their ranges. Remember the any Ace is a power card to weak players, that does not mean they play wide ranges. We would need to see this player call a 5x open with 9c5c to know they have a wide enough range that we can bet Axx boards and be ahead more often than behind.

Hope this helps

:):)
 
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Veritas

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What's the best statergie for playing against rags who mostly limp with anything but without AAKKAks. Like how you put them on a range. They never show any strength? :confused:

those Kind of Player are annoying, but once you identify them, easy to exploit.
the usally have very high VPIP% (40%+ in early stage) and very low PFR (<5%) and they barely 3bet.
so whenever I can (HU against him, not multiway) I try to raise his bet or limp behind and Play aggressive against them. they usally get rid of their limped Hands very fast. once they Show some strenght by reraising, be cautious and don't try to bluff them. they never bluff so once they get active, they have a decent Hand and you should get out of the way if you don't have a strong Hand.


edit: I would not waste my time to put them on a range because if they limp 40+% of their Hands, they could have anything. so putting them on a 40%range vs your Ax or any PP might give you +EV, but it doesn't make sense to me because they fold most of the time against a huge raise.
so I would only look at their preflop raising Patterns. that might be only top5% of their hands
 
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ventrolloquist

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What's the best statergie for playing against rags who mostly limp with anything but without AAKKAks. Like how you put them on a range. They never show any strength? :confused:


You kind of don't, there is something called stack to pot ratio (SPR) which should dictate what you consider a strong hand postflop and how to play it, and the presence of limpers changes SPR. There's a good article on upswing called how to play with a table full of limpers or something.

A) are they a passive calling station who chases the river then folds? --> play only top pair top kicker on rainbow uncoordinated boards and be more passive on coordinated boards. You can donk bet 2 pair or better in multiway pots full of limpers if the board is dry/uncoordinated.

B) Are they fit or fold limpers that only call when they have something? Cbet them dry with 1/3 - 1/2 pot bets even if you've got nothing (but be in position and tend towards avoiding c-betting multi-way pots). Heck if they fold to minbets on the flop just do a minbet. Back off when they call because now you can greatly narrow their range. Consider the board texture and watch out for straights and flushes in multiway pots. In heads up pots you can sometimes snag the pot with a high card if they are the gambling calling station type and if they are the kind who bet when they hit the board but have just been calling the whole time.

Their range is basically everything until you can figure out what they consider a bad hand.
 
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fundiver199

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In addition to all the excellent advice given by others, it is ok to sometimes value own yourself against very passive players. If someone wants to limp-call preflop with AK and then let you own yourself with AJ on a A high board, thats fine. They are giving up a ton of value elsewhere by being so passive.
 
Dailon Arroyo Blandon

Dailon Arroyo Blandon

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It is difficult for these types of players to place them exactly in a certain opening range ... I usually open my hands with 3 blinds ... but when I find a player who does Limp constantly ... I open my hands for 4 or 5 blinds ... so this way that player will think twice before doing Limp again ...!
 
byron42

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Thank U 4 Posting.

You have to keep their range wide and include strong hands that U think should have shown strength. Remember they are seldom bluffing or semi-bluffing or thin value betting so we can bet fold more hands when they do take strong actions.

We are max betting our really strong hands and small betting or checking our weaker made hands.

We are also going to try to realize our equity more when in position by checking behind when we have say second pair plus draw hands as the only fold equity we have is when they miss.

Remember we will be getting to rivers more often vs this player type so 1 pair hands go way down in value and thin value betting OOP becomes -ev. Bluff less as well.

As I stated above we must max value bet when we have strong hands on the river as these villains usually will call thinking that they have trapped us or we are bluffing them which we seldom do.

These are the basics, you will have to take notes on your player pool to get an idea of how your villains actually play. If you gather enough data you will notice patterns.

Hope this helps

:):)

This is great, I'm constantly trying to figure out how to work this out. To be honest I find my self being too passive from time to time (such as the villain in this situation), so it also helps me think about my own strategy from that aspect as well.
 
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CSLysander

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This is why I switch up how I play on a table at times. It is also why I am enjoying freerolls more lately. Learning to play against weak, bad, or erratic players will show you how to handle odd play that can happen in all tournaments. They happen less so in bigger matches, but still happen. This teaches you to handle bad beats much easier than you normally would and does not cost you anything. There are people who overvalue Ax hands way too often and you can see who they are by watching the play when you are not in hands. This has helped me many times when I have played freerolls. It also teaches the different psychological profiles to be able to see them when you are playing for real stakes. It was a tad funny one day because I went all in with KK the other day and 4 others followed. All of them had Ax hands and were unable to best my hand because of it.

Another player to consider is those who also value face cards more than they should. There is an ATM on a site I play that if they get K, Q, or J, even with a garbage kicker, they they raise stupidly. They follow this by C betting just as idiotically when they have nothing, just the face card.

Now, limpers are quite common in low and free. This means that you need to use this time as a way to learn how to bet to either wake them up from doing this or exploit it in a manner that does not hurt you if they get lucky. Take the time and experiment. I am lucky because I have found a site I can experiment and learn how to manipulate people to being my fish for this. I have gotten to the point that I can money or run deep on a normal basis from this. I still have my moments where I am out in the first few rounds, but that happens. Just spend the time to play the hands to learn what works.
 
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MichaelTyler

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I just ignore them and play my regular game, which is not dictated or deviated by what they may or may not have. Either they are playing poorly and all is good or they are playing well, and I'm already trying my best to play against that anyway.

Edit: Oh, and if I'm ignoring them then my eventual raise is a range and all I have to do is play my range and position while taking into account the usual stuff like suits, rank, blockers, un-blockers, stack-to-pot ratio, previous action, equity dumping, and etc. I suppose I can knock out the top end of their range, but not always with limpers. I've seen it all. Just play my equities and whatnot and all is well. If they are wide then okay and if not then also okay.
 
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TeUnit

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If you isolate(raise the limpers) your hand becomes easier to play. Then with most boards you can do a standard cbet and they will usually tell you if they picked up a hand by calling or raising.
 
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