Good hands to 3bet with.

[najisami]

Hello everyone,

3betting is a crucial piece to be included in one's arsenal when playing poker. The problem for a lot of players, myself included, is what hands to do it with. In the micro/low stakes, most of the time, a pre-flop 3bet means : AK, JJ,QQ, KK, OR AA. But in certain situations, more advanced players can 3bet or even 4bet with a variety of marginal hands also.

What are those situations ? What range of hands do they chose to do it with ? And against what type of players ?

By trying to answer these questions, I hope we can all learn a few things from each other.

 

[Luvart]

If you are a beginner stick with the premium hands and maybe add some hand like rag suited Kx or low suited connectors.

 

[najisami]

If you are a beginner stick with the premium hands and maybe add some hand like rag suited Kx or low suited connectors.

Agree, a beginner should stick with the prime hands. But does a beginner aspires to stay a beginner forever ?

 

[Gallarado777]

if you do it at low limits with guys who do not understand 3bet or 4 bet yours, they will simply call or go straight to All-in so you will have to immediately play with the strong hand you listed but below you should not even play with your hands because you will find yourself in an incomprehensible situation and will not be able to call your opponent's All-in

 

[najisami]

if you do it at low limits with guys who do not understand 3bet or 4 bet yours, they will simply call or go straight to All-in so you will have to immediately play with the strong hand you listed but below you should not even play with your hands because you will find yourself in an incomprehensible situation and will not be able to call your opponent's All-in

Yeah man, unfortunately, at those stakes, players don't like to use the "FOLD" button too much 😂🤣 unless you shove and still !!!
In this thread, I'm rather talking about improving our game in a more intermediate environment since the level of CC games we play is not as low as the one of the freerolls played else where, especially at the platinum level.

 

[Captainine9]

If you are a beginner stick with the premium hands and maybe add some hand like rag suited Kx or low suited connectors.

Low suited connectors for beginners, you think?

 

[dallam]

If you wanna see some weaker combinations 3 or 4-bet with, we can call them bluffs. But since you can't represent over and over the premium ones in that range, sometimes you can put of course some lighter ones in it, and the question was when and where.

There's not a proper answer for that, because few occassions there are people who play their premium ones with slowplaying, or becoming really sticky and our action may not go through. So you definitely need to find the air in the opponent game, who are you against capable of pulling the trigger when it's time, but still don't do it so often. I would also recommend to have a great game at that table, and try to achieve some respect, that almost noone will suspend your bluff-action, and its also really important to play with the dealt card and the possible ranges.

It's not an easy stuff, maybe not even the most rewardable in short term, but in the long term when we are talking about really deep finishes, you either way need to be lucky, and the right investigation around your table, and the right-timed actions are everything, even sometimes they make you eliminated.
I'm going to show you 2 recent games 2-2 3-bet bluffs, and how and why they came through - you can also see the full actions in the replayer and decide whether it's worthy to do them or not!

 

[dallam]

I'm going to show you 2 recent games 2-2 3-bet bluffs, and how and why they came through - you can also see the full actions in the replayer and decide whether it's worthy to do them or not!

1st hand (1.1$ deepstack):

Quiet an early 3-bet of mine from CO, but calling is not really an option I believe, many upcoming stacks capable to make a hero-shove with medio pairs, also at this micro level its easy to see family pots. So a needed isolation, and that's not the worst hand to do with, since we could have the nuts here or hit something and sell it still.

Flop is a low one, only a backdoor flushdraw. However we still have two strong overs at this point, and we did in fact raise our hand as a big pocket pair, so can't be afraid from the 1bb donk-bet open, and I reraised to 5bb which I could do with the represented hands as well. As you see no sets, not even a call, so it became an easy take down.

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2nd hand (1.1$ deepstack):

This could cause an argument, but it ended in a green light. So... Opponent opened 3bb in almost every second hand. I remember I wrote down every AXo, 66, 55, J9o stuffs so literally every single combination which seem to be playable, but in reality they are not. I had an amazing stack, both huge table-reputation, cause most of my actions were on point, and run with very great value.

He once again opened the usual 3bb, and as I was on BB and noone to came, I stood in with 3-bet to 10.5bbs. He was capable to fold his 3bb raise, but this time he went with us. Flop: KJ2.

To be honest, all of the noted hands are beaten here that he made his fishy 3bb playings, so I decided to continue with a 1/3 pot bet, since we are supposed to have all the premium combinations, but I choose a bet-sizing which can keep this person still in (I was really hoping on the opposite xd) - he ended up folding, so another donk combination on his side, while we put the biggest bluffs we could have.

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3rd hand (11$ Sunday Storm):


So what MTT is better to test the min 3-bet from BTN than Sunday Storm?! It's definitely something that not adviced to do. However this deep you not adviced to do the min-betting from MP, and it looked already sus to me. So I decided to live with this small bet, and put a really weird continuation one. BB and MP also just called ( It's very important that MP just called cause we supposed to see a 4-bet here, and it cut the range incredibely, also not seeing BB with such a monster here).
Flop: 754 (backdoor flush and straight draw)

MP starting to show some strenght, and put a half-pot bet in. I doubt it, its probably a pair only, so just continued our weird line, and min-raised to x2.5. BB folded, MP only called and we still have the position advantage.
Turn: 7h

We are getting a bit closer to our outs. But MP fire another donk bet, only 21% of the pot. So puts himself on a Set? If FH, why this line? If flush-draws, why donk bet for the 2nd time? What exactly we can have? I found an answer for it, and went to make this person actually fold. Cause I believed his hand is only a straight draw here and nothing more. With my seizing I could already hit several things, and I'm supposed to have a healthy connection. A suprising call happened.
River: 6c

Villain donk bet for the 3rd time, and closing out the Set on his side. FH's more likely not, why not 4-bet me anytime. So the only remaining combination is the Flush, which the 2nd donk bet and huge 3-bet call may not make so much possible, at least pretty much narrowed flushes. So my intuition became here a chop or a bluff, and it turned out a bluff.

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4th hand (11$ Sunday Storm):

The UTG raise is something you supposed to take it seriously, however it was his first hand at the table, & we are on the BTN with just a great medium pair. So we made a 3-bet to 5.4bbs, something competitive, and if opp willing to 4-bet it, let's do it here and now - but no four bet happened, and we were going to the flop.
Flop: 327

Pretty nice flop for us, but with even a really stronger hand, no need to scare opp away. Made a 30+% bet and it was just called ( I supposed to raise here with two overs as well).
Turn: Ah

Now on the turn 2 flush-draws. Opponent checks again, and to overcome some 3-bets and make a late value-bet, because we are in position we are going to rip the Ace off with a solid bet. It even came through as opp folded, so no A in the hand, while we took down with second pair only.

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/125aKZv0z

Hope this hands are helpful, and give some ideas.

 

[najisami]

Low suited connectors for beginners, you think?

Absolutely, here and there but in position. Thank you for your contribution. I think I will try it tonight one or two times.

 

[najisami]

If you wanna see some weaker combinations 3 or 4-bet with, we can call them bluffs. But since you can't represent over and over the premium ones in that range, sometimes you can put of course some lighter ones in it, and the question was when and where.

There's not a proper answer for that, because few occassions there are people who play their premium ones with slowplaying, or becoming really sticky and our action may not go through. So you definitely need to find the air in the opponent game, who are you against capable of pulling the trigger when it's time, but still don't do it so often. I would also recommend to have a great game at that table, and try to achieve some respect, that almost noone will suspend your bluff-action, and its also really important to play with the dealt card and the possible ranges.

It's not an easy stuff, maybe not even the most rewardable in short term, but in the long term when we are talking about really deep finishes, you either way need to be lucky, and the right investigation around your table, and the right-timed actions are everything, even sometimes they make you eliminated.
I'm going to show you 2 recent games 2-2 3-bet bluffs, and how and why they came through - you can also see the full actions in the replayer and decide whether it's worthy to do them or not!

Hello dallam,
Thank you for the reply and for the very good points you made. I will try to say what I think about a couple of them as well as what I've learned from the hands you shared, but in a while. I have 3 tables going right now and I'm not a "good" multitasking person.Apology...

 

[najisami]

1st hand (1.1$ deepstack):

About this first hand, I really don't have much to say. I think it was perfectly played. You showed strength from the start and played it as aggressively as it should. Nice job.

 

[najisami]

2nd hand (1.1$ deepstack):

Oh man ! This is exactly why I started this thread. Sometimes we lose a lot of value by playing too passively.
This hand is a perfect example, it answers all my three questions in one shot.
It's an acceptable, playable hand to defend with, the right type of player to do it against, and the right timing.
Not to forget the importance of the notes and your read postflop.
Thank you for sharing that one. We can all learn something from it.

 

[najisami]

3rd hand (11$ Sunday Storm):

Another beauty you pulled with this one. The read and the analysis were right on the spot.
However, since this thread is about learning, if a beginner is reading this, he should know that if he hasn't detected the MP player's weakness (No 4-bet) or is not capable of following up postflop in case of a no hit, he better throw that 38h in the muck...

 

[ROYALROAD]

So it all depends on the situation at hand. I don't think I'll ever get that chance.

 

[najisami]

4th hand (11$ Sunday Storm):

lol..., This one was scary ! But having sensed weakness, you had the right to hammer the UTG raiser even on the scare card unless he shows you otherwise.
And by the way, this is getting truly instructive, thank you very much dallam.

 

[najisami]

So it all depends on the situation at hand. I don't think I'll ever get that chance.

I think you should go after that chance, it will never come looking for you. Take a look at the 4 hands shared here by dallam. See how he played them. Can you say that he was lucky ? I think he "Took" the "Chance" when he felt it was there.

 

[Claudiunm]

Very instructive post. Knowing how to take advantage of this information in a double way is very important because there will be times when we will 3-bet and other times when our opponent will be. Identifying the time to intercept our opponent or to run away from him is what will make the difference.

 

[Panda19977]

It also depends on the frequency your opponent is betting, if he bets a lot you can 3 bet him more in certain situations

 

[najisami]

It also depends on the frequency your opponent is betting, if he bets a lot you can 3 bet him more in certain situations

Exactly. That's why it's crucial that we keep focus and watch every action taken at the table whether we're in the hand or not.
Thank you for the insight.

 

[najisami]

Very instructive post. Knowing how to take advantage of this information in a double way is very important because there will be times when we will 3-bet and other times when our opponent will be. Identifying the time to intercept our opponent or to run away from him is what will make the difference.

I agree, in order to maximize our winnings, we have to take shots here and there by raising or 3-betting, especially against an opponent who raises often, but at the same time, we should know when to let go.

 

[dallam]

thank you very much dallam.

Your welcome. You doing a great job at the freeolls, so I knew if I show some lighter hands that I 3-betted with, you will be able to put them in a right place, and it may answer your question, or assist your game a bit.

 

[dallam]

lol..., This one was scary ! But having sensed weakness, you had the right to hammer the UTG raiser even on the scare card unless he shows you otherwise.

My flop 1/3 bet was only called, so no stronger pockets on opp's side. No set either, cause why not targetting my line.

Turn was an Ace, and this person still checks. Now it's interesting to overthink that what Ax combinations just call the 3-bet pre, and still calls the continuation bet on the flop with such a cheap prize. Cause when the Ace of Hearts fall down, it eliminates all the Ah Xh cards, and all the Ad Xd cards remained only. Maybe A and another over card like A10s or AJs in a different colour. Anyway, I could represent the Ace in my hand, even the sets too, while he folded to the right sizing to this bluff, so it must be two overcards and no flushdraws, or even with the flushdraw only.

 

[dallam]

One thing I can may put here is that the slower and the deepest the game, the easier to play some hands different. Of course you have to thinking in ranges, but still playing with your hands and that's why it make it harder, however you have the pre, flop, turn and river street to get to know the most information that where are you staying at the party, and to make this to your advance.

If you mentioned what hands could be putted in the 3-bet scale, and what situations can wide this, don't forget that in few cases, the opposite could be working - when you just flat with a monster. Or when to making hero calls and hero folds as well, when checking down the absolute nuts, when to raise with. So much factors, and ways to play a single hand, so much people to trying to make the most from it, so feel free to experiment sometimes on the fields, investigate some tables as a spectator, and all the most important skills will be built in your game.

Good luck!

 

[najisami]

Your welcome. You doing a great job at the freeolls, so I knew if I show some lighter hands that I 3-betted with, you will be able to put them in a right place, and it may answer your question, or assist your game a bit.

Well, I don't really think I'm doing a great job in those freerolls, but thank you anyway. I have to say that even though those CC games could be considered like micro / low stakes, about the 1/3 of the field still don't know what they're doing, calling bets with bottom pair and chasing all the way, which changes the outcome of the game considerably. But I find them fun to play, along with a couple low buy ins where I feel more comfortable.

 

[najisami]

One thing I can may put here is that the slower and the deepest the game, the easier to play some hands different. Of course you have to thinking in ranges, but still playing with your hands and that's why it make it harder, however you have the pre, flop, turn and river street to get to know the most information that where are you staying at the party, and to make this to your advance.

If you mentioned what hands could be putted in the 3-bet scale, and what situations can wide this, don't forget that in few cases, the opposite could be working - when you just flat with a monster. Or when to making hero calls and hero folds as well, when checking down the absolute nuts, when to raise with. So much factors, and ways to play a single hand, so much people to trying to make the most from it, so feel free to experiment sometimes on the fields, investigate some tables as a spectator, and all the most important skills will be built in your game.

Good luck!

Hey dallam,
I always liked the saying : "There is always another way to look at things". And with your way of analyzing those hands, you really made me see things somewhat differently, kind of from different angles, I thank you for that and for your input in this thread because that's precisely why I started it, hoping that everyone could participate by sharing 3-bet hands for everyone else to analyze and proposing some marginal or speculative hands to 3-bet with in certain situations.
So far, you've been the most responsive. I hope some of us, even without posting anything here could learn something from your generous insights. After all, that's why we spend some of our time at this forum. Thanks again and best of luck..