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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Usually you can not fold a set on the flop or the turn, but maybe it could have been better to just call rather than 3-bet jam. If he was "protecting" an overpair with no flushdraw, playing your set this fast might allow him to get away.
ASMautoneJr
Visionary
Bronze Level
it depends, if you have a high card or not, it depends on the amount of chips, it depends on the moment of the tournament ..... if it was the beginning of the tournament, I say yes, you can fold!
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Oxinthewater
Rock Star
Silver Level
IntenseHeat
Legend
Bronze Level
As ASMautoneJr points out, it depends on stack sizes as well as what point you're at in the tournament. It's definitely harder to fold top set with a short stack. A deeper stack affords you more options as to how you proceed. Unless you're on a short stack, it seems to me that there were cheaper ways to find out where you were in the hand than going all in.
Like fundiver199 says, it's hard to get away from a set on the flop, even with the all heart board. I see a lot of players get carried away betting the four flush here. But I feel like I frequently end up seeing that fourth heart land, at which point I have to let my hand go. That's why I also agree that it may have been better to flat call and see if the board pairs and also to see how your opponent proceeds on the turn.
Like fundiver199 says, it's hard to get away from a set on the flop, even with the all heart board. I see a lot of players get carried away betting the four flush here. But I feel like I frequently end up seeing that fourth heart land, at which point I have to let my hand go. That's why I also agree that it may have been better to flat call and see if the board pairs and also to see how your opponent proceeds on the turn.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I think, people often tend to panic in these spots, because they dont want to get outdrawn. But losing less, when we are behind to a made flush, is also important, and these spots tend to be very easy to play on the turn and river. We pretty much know, exactly which cards are good (paired board) or bad (another heart), so its very easy to make the right decisions. Not piling in all our chips on the flop keep more options open, especially if we start with a deep stack like 100BB. If its a tournament hand with 30BB, then stacks are usually going in on the turn anyway, so it does not really matter, what we do.
eetenor
Legend
Platinum Level
Thank U 4 Posting
The problem with Jamming is we have top set so what hand that we are crushing calls our jam? So when we jam all the flush draws have 30% or better the one pair hands no diamond fold even if they are over pairs unless V is terrible and when they have the flush we have 33% equity.
Bet sizing is also a huge factor in how we look at this. How deep were stacks? What was the raise size? What was the shove size?
We use this data to narrow the V range. We can fold sets if we know this V is betting nut only hands but if we get the equity to call based on the raise size we can call the raise even if the V showed us the nut flush on the flop.
Hope this helps
najisami
Legend
Loyaler
Flopping top set is often the nuts, but not in this case. So, when you bet and got raised, your opponent is sending you a clear message. Who would raise on a 3 hearts flop except a complete maniac ? Of course you are still have outs to fill up, but that doesn't justify a shove. And even a call would depend on many factors, for instance the stack size and the tournament stage. Still, flat calling would've been a lot less damaging anyway then reconsider when you see the turn.
perrypip
Rock Star
Silver Level
Usually when the flop is monotone you're not up against a flush. Slightly less than a quarter of the suited hands in his range will be hearts and suited hands are usually about a third of his range. So that's less than 1/12 of his range being on a flush. And out of about 2/3 of villains range being offsuit, less than half will have a heart. So that's slightly less than 1/3 of his range being on a flush draw.
So is villain a passive player? Or would he semi bluff raise you in this spot? If he's a passive player just fold because he's probably got the flush.
OTOH If he would always semi bluff and always bet a flush and never bet anything else I would figure about a 20% chance he's on a flush and a 80% chance he's on a flush draw. The flush draw has a 36% chance, so overall that's a 49% of him getting a flush by the river. But you have about a 30% chance of improving to a boat. IOW I would figure I have about a 60% equity at this point.
And when you shove you have some fold equity. If he was semi bluffing he has 36% chance of improving. So if your shove is less than 1.28 times the pot you can figure he will call and with 60% equity its favorable for you. If your shove is more than that he should call with the flush or otherwise fold. If he has the flush 20% of the time then up to 4 times the pot is favorable for you.
But a better approach, I think, is just to call here. The reason is you get to see another card. If its a heart you can shut down. Otherwise if he had semi bluffed his equity is down now down to 18% and he'll probably check to get a free card. When he does that you can raise. If he does bet again you should fold, unless you think he's a maniac.
So is villain a passive player? Or would he semi bluff raise you in this spot? If he's a passive player just fold because he's probably got the flush.
OTOH If he would always semi bluff and always bet a flush and never bet anything else I would figure about a 20% chance he's on a flush and a 80% chance he's on a flush draw. The flush draw has a 36% chance, so overall that's a 49% of him getting a flush by the river. But you have about a 30% chance of improving to a boat. IOW I would figure I have about a 60% equity at this point.
And when you shove you have some fold equity. If he was semi bluffing he has 36% chance of improving. So if your shove is less than 1.28 times the pot you can figure he will call and with 60% equity its favorable for you. If your shove is more than that he should call with the flush or otherwise fold. If he has the flush 20% of the time then up to 4 times the pot is favorable for you.
But a better approach, I think, is just to call here. The reason is you get to see another card. If its a heart you can shut down. Otherwise if he had semi bluffed his equity is down now down to 18% and he'll probably check to get a free card. When he does that you can raise. If he does bet again you should fold, unless you think he's a maniac.