Fold/shove Strategy

[Goalie35]

I typically play MTT. The theory says you should shove when you get below 10bbs. What should your shove range be? When you are card dead, it is easy to go from 20bb to 3bb without a reasonable hand. I just can't shove with a 9-2 or 10-4.

 

[eetenor]

I typically play MTT. The theory says you should shove when you get below 10bbs. What should your shove range be? When you are card dead, it is easy to go from 20bb to 3bb without a reasonable hand. I just can't shove with a 9-2 or 10-4.

Thank you for posting.

Phil Galfond when asked what do you do when you are card dead responded by saying
"Lose"

We cannot adapt a strategy to being card dead.

When sub 10BB in an MTT OOM we are looking to shove in spots we hope to get folds when we are shoving non premium hands.
So we are looking for V who over fold or who need to protect their own stack.

As to what hands to shove try to shove suited cards and cards that can make straights.
73s is a better shove than T4 off if we expect to get called.

Hope this helps

 

[Goalie35]

Thanks, your comments confirm my thoughts. Love the response to being card dead.

 

[eetenor]

Thanks, your comments confirm my thoughts. Love the response to being card dead.

We all struggle to do something to win to act in some way that will let us win but Phil is right card dead is card dead.

The only thing we can do to overcome this is play more MTT's that is it. The more we play the more chances we have to not run card dead.

If we are truly card dead though we may want to blind down below 10bb the old saying chip and a chair may apply. Not that it will work just that it may work. Keep folding trying to get dealt a playable hand and hope to go on a run after you win it.

Hope this helps

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

If you're playing freerolls and low buyin tourn then don't mess around with those hands.

I rarely bluff in tourns with beginners and really really rarely shove with a trash hand like you're talking about but did it yesterday in a freeroll while in the SB and I just needed the BB to fold and like clockwork they called with any ace x for their entire life (with a lot of blind left if they fold) and i had 39 or some really stupid hand and that cut me in half right before the final table.

Don't play that trash. They're going to call you with JT or any suited trash hand, small pairs or whatever. Just stay away from that trash.

People that do that are the ones that can win a tourn in a blue moon because they get people that know starting hands and have common sense to fold but they can't cash on a regular basis and more than likely are at best break even players.

You're using an advanced strategy on people that don't know starting hands and tourn structure and they'll burn you for trying it.

If you're card dead then you're card dead and can't do anything against tables full of beginners playing every hand and donks playing every hand and raising because they don't know starting hands. Better to just move on to the next tourn.

Slim to no chance to bluff a bad player. And after they call you with some silly hand and you lose then you'll be thinking: "I shouldn't have tried it or I should have waited for a real shoving hand to make that move. And that's the truth.

They'll call you, they're bad players, that's what bad players do. Don't expect them to play well and fold a mediocre hand, they don't know what a mediocre hand is, lol

 

[afecho]

Another great topic for me to learn from! I tend to shove anything with an A or any pair when I'm low on chips, but will consider this closer with straight possibilities now. Thanks!

 

[fundiver199]

I typically play MTT. The theory says you should shove when you get below 10bbs. What should your shove range be? When you are card dead, it is easy to go from 20bb to 3bb without a reasonable hand. I just can't shove with a 9-2 or 10-4.

Which hands to open shove depends on a lot of factors including:

* Your exact stack size
* Your position
* Stack size of players left behind you
* The size of the ante
* If payjumps are near
* Opponent tendencies

However if you want a short-cut or "cheat-sheet", then the following hands can usually be open shoved profitably with less than 10BB, or at least you will rarely be making a significant mistake by doing it.

* Any pocket pair
* Any suited ace
* Any suited broadway
* AJ+, KQ

As you get into late position or even shorter than 10BB, you should look to widen your shoving range further.

 

[Amanda A]

Love the Phil quote! Yeah, sometimes there are only bad choices. You have to shove a wide range, especially if the action folds to you on the Button or Small Blind. On the BU any A, any suited K, Any suited broadway card down to a 7 kicker, about a 40% range and in the SB an over 50% range. Just remember you can still get it in bad and win the hand! Any hand has some equity against another hand. Maybe this is the hand your luck will turn around! GL

 

[valetgll]

I pick at least a middle card or an ace with a low kicker or connectors.

 

[eetenor]

Love the Phil quote! Yeah, sometimes there are only bad choices. You have to shove a wide range, especially if the action folds to you on the Button or Small Blind. On the BU any A, any suited K, Any suited broadway card down to a 7 kicker, about a 40% range and in the SB an over 50% range. Just remember you can still get it in bad and win the hand! Any hand has some equity against another hand. Maybe this is the hand your luck will turn around! GL

Thank you for responding.

Just did a quick GTO chart RFI 10bb
Not that it may apply in no-foldem games but interesting to think about.

BTN
A2s+ K2s+ Q6s+ shove

SB I thought this was very interesting
A2s+ K2s-K9s Kts+ mix call and shove KQs more call than shove
Q2s-6s shove but call Q7s-Js
J2s-7s shove but call the rest
all TX played best and worst just called
100% of all suited played
connectors shoved down to 2 gap rest called

Hope this helps

 

[offshore11000]

Me neither, but I think your shoving range should be a little tighter than that. And I'll say more: with 10 big blinds there is still room for maneuver in mtt lol

 

[oldbutslow]

Me neither, but I think your shoving range should be a little tighter than that. And I'll say more: with 10 big blinds there is still room for maneuver in mtt lol

Yeah, it seems like the old shove at 10BB is now more like shove at 5-7BB, atleast that is what i have picked up on when returning to poker over the past month.