Dealt Queens...But lose

Shakes

Shakes

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With being a newbie and all I was wondering what (if anything..although I am sure there is quite a bit) I should have done differently. Any help will be helpful.

full tilt poker Game #6773809361: RoundersRadio.com (50734095), Table 25 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:24:43 ET - 2008/06/10
Seat 1: DoceBee (12,325)
Seat 2: cptChipsMagnet (1,025)
Seat 3: JCuervo (2,405), is sitting out
Seat 4: gns2003 (2,025)
Seat 5: hetebees (1,320), is sitting out
Seat 6: FerNandaa (1,275), is sitting out
Seat 7: poKKerrAAt07 (1,765)
Seat 8: EHLShakes (1,530)
Seat 9: Hildahl (1,490)
poKKerrAAt07 posts the small blind of 25
EHLShakes posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to EHLShakes [Qh Qc]
Hildahl folds
DoceBee calls 50
cptChipsMagnet folds
JCuervo folds
gns2003 folds
hetebees folds
FerNandaa folds
poKKerrAAt07 calls 25
EHLShakes has 15 seconds left to act
EHLShakes raises to 400
DoceBee calls 350
poKKerrAAt07 calls 350
*** FLOP *** [Kh 4h 2d]
poKKerrAAt07 checks
EHLShakes bets 1,130, and is all in
DoceBee calls 1,130
poKKerrAAt07 raises to 1,365, and is all in
DoceBee calls 235
poKKerrAAt07 shows [7c Kc]
EHLShakes shows [Qh Qc]
DoceBee shows [Ah 7h]
*** TURN *** [Kh 4h 2d] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [Kh 4h 2d 8s] [8c]
poKKerrAAt07 shows two pair, Kings and Eights
DoceBee shows a pair of Eights
poKKerrAAt07 wins the side pot (470) with two pair, Kings and Eights
EHLShakes shows two pair, Queens and Eights
poKKerrAAt07 wins the main pot (4,590) with two pair, Kings and Eights
EHLShakes stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5,060 Main pot 4,590. Side pot 470. | Rake 0
Board: [Kh 4h 2d 8s 8c]
Seat 1: DoceBee showed [Ah 7h] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 2: cptChipsMagnet didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: JCuervo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: gns2003 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: hetebees didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: FerNandaa (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: poKKerrAAt07 (small blind) showed [7c Kc] and won (5,060) with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 8: EHLShakes (big blind) showed [Qh Qc] and lost with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 9: Hildahl didn't bet (folded)
 
C

CfPoker

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Raise less preflop. A good rule of thumb is 3xBB + 1xBB for each limper. So 200 might have been a bit better. Then once you get to the flop the pot is less. You could have bet, been raised, and escaped.
 
Shakes

Shakes

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Ok so that would mean 150, then what would happen for a reraise? And dont you want to raise more online since so many more call (its basically the only reason why I did so much) anyway?
 
widowmaker89

widowmaker89

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I disagree, while it is a good rule of thumb if you are going to be called by A7 and K7 by betting 8x then you should do it. Pot commitment isnt the worry with QQ and 1 limper in the BB. This looks like a free roll and while I dont play them I would say this raise is fine, hell all in is probably ideal since you will probably get called anyway.
 
Shakes

Shakes

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Your right it was a freeroll. From what I have understood, you have to play online much differently then live...hence why the raise was so much. In a live game I probably would have done the 150 as said before.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Regardless of your preflop raise why push on the flop when the K hits the board?
 
un-diluted

un-diluted

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^^ abs. right. no reason to ever shove here with an overcard on the flop, just make a feeler bet and fold to a rr. you could also run into a set with the sizeable call preflop. easy to put someone on a pp there
...but hopefully not 44 or 22, BUT is IS a freeroll
QQ is FAR from invincible, and ONLY because it's a freeroll perhaps u could have open shoved preflop. You'd think the k rag would have folded there...small pot, but it's a win.
 
Shakes

Shakes

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Well like I said I am a newbie and in freerolls Ive seen someone call with J2os so I was curious.
 
un-diluted

un-diluted

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GL in the future, I am sure that if you stick with reading, comprehending, and posting here that you will improve quickly. We (well, most of us) all started in freerolls.
 
dj11

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In the early stages of any and every freeroll, anything, and everything will be called, raised, reraised, and badbeats are the norm. That part of your assumption is fair.

That is also a great reason to NOT play QQ for a big win. If it were later in the tourney, it would be a monster, and you could play it standardly and expect to at least steal the blinds.

It might have been best here (gasp) to limp with QQ, or min raise this early.

The alternative of a shove (all-in) is reasonable, but I fear that same dude would have called.

Once the Kxx flop came, you have to respect that K. Or go broke.
 
Shakes

Shakes

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Wow min raise. That never even crossed my mine to do that. Granted my post flop stuff was very bad but since in a way I knew I had problems doing this anyway. So I wanted to know what was best to do in that part. Guess my next question is after the"feeler" bet, how would you know if you were beat assuming it is simply a raise or what not. But PF min raise I never thought of.
 
widowmaker89

widowmaker89

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The assumption that pushing QQ is bad because K7 would call is a very flawed view. You should want QQ vs K7 all day. Take advantage of everyones view that they should either double up or go broke. Sure you will go brokea fair amount of times since you will get a lot of callers usually but with such strong hands you gotta take those chances.
 
un-diluted

un-diluted

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The assumption that pushing QQ is bad because K7 would call is a very flawed view. You should want QQ vs K7 all day. Take advantage of everyones view that they should either double up or go broke. Sure you will go brokea fair amount of times since you will get a lot of callers usually but with such strong hands you gotta take those chances.


you mean preflop only, versus post-king high flop as this hand turned out.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you about qq vs. K7 preflop, but this hand goes further than preflop
 
Dwilius

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with queens in a freeroll i'm raising an amount thats easy to get away from/ maybe limp-reraising allin if i'm sure to be raised/ but usually just flat all in. I might raise that amount with KK but i usually just flat push that too. Its a freeroll, almost always get called by Ax or much worse, good chance to double up or get out. of course thats how i was kicked in last cc freeroll QQ called first by A8 for 3/5 stack and then what i can only assume was someone setmining for 3/4 stack :eek: since they folded after A flop.
 
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Shakes

Shakes

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Since I play in a majority of Freerolls (I dont think I am good enough to be in money tournaments other then micro sngs and even then) I assume at least 1 was Ax as their was one. Didn not expect K7 to be there but I from what I am told I tend to not bet enough on PF and too much Post Flop which is obvious from this example.
 
TheNoob

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Even as a very new player, I have learned getting dealt queens is nice but very beatable.

Even with my very limited experience, your shove when that K showed on the flop seems misplaced.
 
RickH2005

RickH2005

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Pocket Qs!

In most freerolls pocket Queens are really just a mediocre( I can't spell!:( ) hand as most every time you will get called at least-re-raised usually by some one w/A-6 off! I can't count the number of times I've lost w/pocket As by donks who just don't really know how to play! So it's really just "Blind Luck" that generally wins in most of these freerolls! Early on at least! Later, the REAL poker players are usually left! And they are the ones who play tight in the begining an loosen up a bit later on!
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Here's a helpful post :confused:

with queens in a freeroll i'm raising an amount thats easy to get away from/ maybe limp-reraising allin if i'm sure to be raised/ but usually just flat all in. I might raise that amount with KK but i usually just flat push that too. Its a freeroll, almost always get called by Ax or much worse, good chance to double up or get out. of course thats how i was kicked in last cc freeroll QQ called first by A8 for 3/5 stack and then what i can only assume was someone setmining for 3/4 stack :eek: since they folded after A flop.


This is pretty close how I'd play them. As dj also said, in a freeroll sometimes you underplay them as you don't want to get knocked out by random cards calling you, and if you underplay them then be ready to throw them away as well. The other option is to overplay them (shove) and see if the random Ace hands want to call.

I don't think there's a correct amount to raise preflop in a freeroll. Often when I get a top hand like this I ask myself, do I want to stake my survival on this hand at this point? If no, then I'll underplay it and be ready to fold it. If yes, then I'll ask myself if I want to shove preflop,or attempt a proper raise and evaluate on the flop (still being ready to fold), or, a stop and go.

Given the flop that you got and two others in, after you check you get two players saying they're committed to the pot. One might be a flush draw, but what are the chances that neither of them have a King? Possible in a freeroll, but probably not worth staking your survival on.
 
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