CC 300 Weekly Freeroll FT correct move or rush?

[DS3]

If he call with any two cards, then we are jamming for value, since we are ahead of 94% of his range. If on the other hand he only call, when we are behind, then we pick up 2,0-2,5BB in blinds and antes uncontested 94% of the time. This is pretty meaningfull to a 17BB stack. It is also acceptable to limp into the pot, or maybe even put in a standard raise, but under no circumstance can we ever fold A9 in this spot. I think, you are vastly underestimating, how good a hand it actually is heads up.

Also there is no particular ICM-pressure here. We are the third shortest stack, and the big payjumps are in the top, so we need to chip up. No offense, but if you fold A9 in a spot like this, then it is going to be really difficult for you to win tournaments. You can not just sit and wait for the nuts, when play gets short handed.

Absolutely agree.

Noted a similar situation with Evan Jarvis when he went out of the 1M GTG in 5th place with K8. He was languishing in 5th place and needed to stack chips. In real time Jarvis played it thinking the call correct as I did watching the video. A solver later said otherwise (though I have not been able to clarify what the solver 'specified' if anything.

I agree, you cannot be folding A9 in this position. Already A9 will likely have been played several times throughout the tourney (rightly and wrongly) but at this juncture only facing the BB? The irony to me is that I would have hesitated to play 99's from the big blind. I would have, yes, but would wince at the prospect.

 

[popstani]

I agree with you that we have a healthy stack to play on but I really don't know how the distribution of the chips was at that particular spot.

We can't just open jam BvB the absolute monster hands, we also need to set an image for future plays against the same opponent , for example we must have some open limps/folds if we get 2bet and some open limps/jams against the BB. If the OP could run it in ICMzer (you can run one HH/day for free on the site) I think the call here should be super marginal(ICM and not $EV)

IMHO OP, I guess, he could easily jam profitable more than 50% range - I really don't know the precise percentage-, CL can't find easily the call here and risk ~30% of his stack in a flip. Chip leading FT is a key element to win MTTs.

ps.Nice spot for discussion

Yes, yes totally nice spot. You got the point here, and I mostly agree with you, but poker is not just mathematics, there are lots more things in this game, like psychology, reading players tendencies, tactics, strategy, ... and that is why it’s so popular, and that why we all love it. And one more thing, it’s good to be chip leader on the final table, but it’s not crucial to win tournament

 

[Aballinamion]

CC hand replayer

I see that I didn't explained very well this hand, so here it comes the replayer:

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124uaIeN6

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[akmost]

Yes, yes totally nice spot. You got the point here, and I mostly agree with you, but poker is not just mathematics, there are lots more things in this game, like psychology, reading players tendencies, tactics, strategy, ... and that is why it’s so popular, and that why we all love it. And one more thing, it’s good to be chip leader on the final table, but it’s not crucial to win tournament

Well said , of course we need adjustments based on the situation/dynamics/opponents and not follow the spots by the book!I totally agree with you here!

 

[Mortis71]

2 players ,b vs b...with a -20 bb stack...shoving any Ace is ok if your only in tis situation. just bad timing he a pp, could fold almost any other hand to shove. But for villian to call any you must be aggro, if passive -"v" will likely fold . All these talk about trackers and is irrelevent at freeroll stakes.
Edit: I would do the same everytime

 

[300HPGOD]

17 BB is too many to be shoving unless you think the rest of the table has a huge advantage on you and you can't beat them postflop. Action is a little hazy but sounds like it folds to you in the SB. If that is the case I just raise here 2.5 to 3x and try to take the blinds. If the BB calls then tread lightly and play accordingly depending on the flop. Being 4th of 6 you have to think about ICM (I know, some of you laugh about that for it being a freeroll) and know there is value waiting a little longer depending on how short 5th and 6th place are and the pay jumps.

 

[Joe]

Seeing the hand replay has made this decision more difficult for me.. :laugh:

I was much more confident with the hazy hand summary...!

This is because now I see your stack is just above the level I would consider myself push/fold pre and UTG has like 3BB! :s::frown:

With full detail I think I lean more towards an open here instead of a shove, but both have pro's and con's. I agree with a previous post- open fold is mistake.

 

[maksonios]

You should have folded immediately, if they were at least suited I wouldn't blame you but it's still a bad and risky decision.

 

[Dispacher55]

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[ZenGreen]

If you were short stack then ICM (though dont quote me on ICM as I screw this up) really isnt the issue and the push is good.

if the other stacks are shorter, YOU KNOW MAN I DUNNO cause If I fold here usually some stupid stuff happens I end being the 1st of the 6 to go. Also I dotn want to be blinded lower than lower stacks.

The shove aint the problem, the ICM might be. but hey if this is final 3 tables GOOD SHOVE, but re-reading this you might of RRAI the btn or something. that maybe not then. but open shove fine, if btn open and you shoved from SB probably not fine in ICM land.

There I tried LOL!!! They say if you can explain, then you understand it, so as you see Im neither


edit - looks like an open shove - so it looks good if your the shortie. I guess you could bet/fold but leave ya with 14bb which might be a better option. Esp at FT when the real money is on the line

OK thats what Im doing IM BET/FOLD but see if you get called then you got problems trying to feel out the hand as you got no FE hardly

as you can see im just talking and typing and this is me going through my own hands most of the time.

so ...

 

[theANMATOR]

(My opinion only )
A/9 o is a crap hand that should played very cautiously.
Personally I would have limp or min-raise and then decided what to do on the eventual re-raise. Probably fold, because as stated A/9 o isn't a great hand. I'd call down A/T all day - but not A/9 o. Possibly if it was suited, - but I'd probably still nit fold it.

15-17bb gives you roughly 10-12 orbits to find a better spot to chip up and also gives you time to wait for the shorter stacks to bust out.

 

[matiusaa]

First, A9 vs 99 is not a flip, 99 is winning preflop. In this spot, since you are 4th of 6 players in a FT, and considering BB has a much bigger stack than you, I expect him to defend lots of times when you try to steal. And going all in doesn’t do much for you. I think folding is best

 

[Poker_Mike]

I have done this and lost but only with <10BB.

I agree that 17BB is too much to shove here.

But seeing that UTG has only 3BB - I would hold back on any shove in order to ladder up.

I like HP's point about 2.5x and treading lightly. Basically ready to fold.

But your chips are so precious - and out of position - and short handed tables are my strength....probably skip this hand.

Although my buddy likes to point out that with an Ax you always have at least 33% equity preflop!

 

[armoko]

I would probably fold in that case and play more tighter because as you said there were two more players with less chips than you. and I would shove only with really good hand

 

[Poker Orifice]

Usually the shove in this spot is standard.. 'BUT' in this particular case it might not be.
You're on a CC freeroll final table. Players will be massively exploitable. On 17bb's you might want to Limp>Stab>Steal. More often than not though, it's a shove.

(keep in mind, many of the responses here need to be filtered... maybe mine too)

Also, it's important to post stack sizes of ALL the players on the table & possibly payouts too. (& player reads... ie one poster suggests that because the big blind's stack is much bigger than your's, it is correct for him to call your shove with any two cards. This is 100% incorrect... 'BUT' it does leave interpretation for player reads (ie. if BB thinks similarly to that poster). In a freeroll, most will be shoving too tight, & calling open raises too wide (on effective short stacks).

Depending upon player in 'that' game, I might LRRAI (note how some posters suggest that they'll limp or bet and then decide how they'll respond to a re-raise or shove 'after' villain acts... instead of prior)

 

[winnie1993]

Limp shove is so much better, cuz bb must raise vs your limp at least bottom 30% hands, so you can just win extra 2bb by limp shoving.

 

[Syltan]

The ICM pressure is as high as possible, if two players had fewer chips than you, then you should wait.

 

[bablovod]

damn it, I remembered that moment when I saw the replay.
it's strange that it's been so long and I haven't seen this thread.
I know that most players push any empty ACE as soon as they see it and wait for a miracle (and it often comes). I'm not good at math, but A9 isn't a very good hand in this situation.
if you think from the BB side, he loses a little more than a third of his stack when he loses a hand, and he has every chance to fight again. however, if he knocks a player out of the fight, then he will get the same third and will feel even more confident, but with fewer players.
as for 99, this is a good enough hand to make a call, but I would not immediately push A high, I would put 2.5 BB. but based on experience, in response to 3bet would have to shove.

 

[sashkinak]

sAshkinAk

password d

 

[Artbart805]

Player from Eastern block countries seem to due this more than others. It is a freeroll and yes on PS it seems that A 6 beats AQ too often. Perhaps its part of the computer program to keep the game exciting? How can 3 players enter a pot and everyone hits a piece of the flop?

 

[josesejo8]

I need ticket

 

[pandaboy]

Hi there CardsChat community, nice sunday to everyone!
I don't know too much about tournaments, as I said before, so here comes my doubt and I count with the help of the community:

Yesterday I was in the FT of the CardsChat Weekly 300 Freeroll, in position 4th of 6 remaining players.
I had 17 blinds and was in the SB who comes in gap. The player in the BB had 62 blinds.
I had A9o and decided to push/shove/all-in. BB thought a lot and called with 99, we flipped and BB won. (gg always)
This was the correct exploitation? Could I've waited more, considering there was only 2 players behind me? Should I wait in situations where there are 2 pay jumps behind me?
Thanks in advance, have a nice day

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Icm. I prefer limp in this spot. and see what will be next. If BB push, we fold, because we are 4/6. If BB raise , we call about 2.5 bb and fold if over 3bb raise.

 

[tatao1969]

seguir aprendiendo

Buenos dias.

Hace ya mucho tiempo que me inicie en este mundo del poker, leo sus comentarios y de cada uno de ellos siempre aprendo un poco mas.

Saludos desde Cordoba, argentina