C-bet against two (or more) players

Marshmalo1994

Marshmalo1994

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Is it profitable to make a c-bet against 2 or more players after a pfr if I didn't connect in the flop?

F.e.:
-Hero raise pre flop, from the CO. Hand: :as4::kh4:
- BU calls. BB calls.
-Flop: :qd4::9h4::6c4:

Is it profitable to do a c-bet?
 
Andyreas

Andyreas

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According to the Poker course of cardschat those are the reasons you should usually not c-bet:
  • If 4 or more people see the flop
  • If the flop is wet (flush or straight draws)
  • If you really do not want to get check-raised

As none of those applies, I'd go for the c-bet of something around 1/3 of the pot.

If you get a caller, you can assume they connected to the flop or have a potential draw. But any A or K will probably save you. 😉
 
Marshmalo1994

Marshmalo1994

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Great answer, thanks! I really have to start asap with that course :sneaky:
 
monkeytilter

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Cbetting vs more than one opponent is tough! You need to consider how 4,6,8.. cards connect with the flop!
It depends on the game your in, stack depth etc but some guidelines to keep you out of trouble..
1. Only do it in position
2. Only do it on the driest of boards, Q96r is way too too connected (write a list of all the hands that make open ended or gutshot straight draws, there's a lot! especially when each one could be held by each of your opponents) .. Q72 maybe and paired boards like QQ3 which are hard to hit
3. Why turn AK into a bluff? You have good show down value and 2 juicy overs to hit and value bet on if you do, better hands to cbet are junky draws like Th8h which can fold to a check raise or better draws that can call and see a turn like JdTd.


Looking at this flop vs two villains..

Let's give them a wide fishy defending range (assuming they 3-bet "top" hands like AQ+ TT etc.)

99-88,66-22,A9s-A2s,K9s-K7s,QTs-Q8s,J8s+,T9s,ATo-A2o,KJo-K7o,Q9o+,J9o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,75o+,65o,54o

Assuming they'll continue with any pair or draw they'll each continue nearly 50% of the time! (16% of the time they'll have a pair, 11% an open ender, 13% a gutshot), so you are getting called by one of them virtually every time and both a quarter of the time!

So NO this is NOT a profitable cbet! (Especially considering their ranges hit this flop a lot harder than AK does!)
 
monkeytilter

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According to the Poker course of cardschat those are the reasons you should usually not c-bet:
  • If 4 or more people see the flop
  • If the flop is wet (flush or straight draws)
  • If you really do not want to get check-raised

As none of those applies, I'd go for the c-bet of something around 1/3 of the pot.

If you get a caller, you can assume they connected to the flop or have a potential draw. But any A or K will probably save you. 😉

Q96 is covered in draws my friend! Consider either of the two villains having..

JT, J8, T8, T7, 87, 85, 75, 75, KJ, KT for open-ended/gutshot straight draws! (Quick list, sorry if I missed any)

This is a pretty "wet" flop :p
 
dallam

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Q96 is covered in draws my friend! Consider either of the two villains having..

JT, J8, T8, T7, 87, 85, 75, 75, KJ, KT for open-ended/gutshot straight draws! (Quick list, sorry if I missed any)

This is a pretty "wet" flop :p

I don't know which non-completely connected flop could hurt AKo the most, but this has really big chance for this award. :D
 
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LemonadeJooe

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U had nut straight draw +2 overpair blocking ak.
10J would call u and set would re-raise.
1/3 ia too little to make A10+ fold.
I would go dor 50% + cbet depending on opps. tendencies.
 
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fundiver199

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Personally I am not C-betting in this spot. I think, the chance of getting both opponents to fold is to small, and one of them have position on us, which is bad in itself. Finally AK has some showdown value, so its definitely not a disaster, if it get checked through. Maybe we can spike top pair for free, or if SB check again, maybe we can make a delayed C-bet for thin value and protection. And if it goes bet, call or bet, check-raise behind us, we can just fold and not invest a single chip in a spot, where we basically missed completely.
 
yuriko oyama

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in my opinion I would c-bet just to put myself in the hand.
but I don't know if I'll do it 100% of the time, it depends a lot on the stage of the tournament and the villains' stakes.
 
D0nk3y Hunt3r

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Is it profitable to make a c-bet against 2 or more players after a pfr if I didn't connect in the flop?

F.e.:
-Hero raise pre flop, from the CO. Hand: :as4::kh4:
- BU calls. BB calls.
-Flop: :qd4::9h4::6c4:

Is it profitable to do a c-bet?
Yes. No. Well, actually yes, I was just kidding. Nah, I'm ****ing with you. Come on, it depends.:ROFLMAO:

Seriously, what players are you playing with? What is your image, what do they believe? Could they connect? How often could they connect? What is their folding equity? Do you play against calling stations?
This Q9 may become someones straight if the next card will fall. 78 also already connected, needs one more. Top pair with Q? A middle pair 9 who will call? A set of 6s? A Q6 on BU? Someone's bluffing here and suddenly catching a heart flush draw on turn?
I would go all in here, maybe... :sneaky:
 
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