Button/Blind Question

Xandit

Xandit

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I tired to find the answer in Roberts Rules but did not understand the wording very well, if someone could clear this up i would be grateful.

From Robert's Rules:

2. Each round every player must get an opportunity for the button, and meet the total amount of the blind obligations. Either of the following methods of button and blind placement may be designated to do this:

(a) Moving button – The button always moves forward to the next player and the blinds adjust accordingly. There may be more than one big blind .

(b) Dead button – The big blind is posted by the player due for it, and the small blind and button are positioned accordingly, even if this means the small blind or the button is placed in front of an empty seat, giving the same player the privilege of last action on consecutive hands.

Can anyone expain this to me in english?

Here is an Example.

3 players left
Player A is SB
Player B is BB
Player C is Button.
Player C moves all in and is called by both A&B and is knocked out.

My question is. Player A is now the Button but would have to post the BB.
Player B would be the SB.

But Player A would not get the button due to the SB (player B) getting the button heads up. But, Player A misses his oppertunity to have the button.

What is the right play so both the blinds and button are right?

Thanks,
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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headexplode.jpg


Now look what ya done.

tbh I really don't know. I'm not well-versed in the ways of specific rules like this. I mostly play online, so I let the software sort through the complicated things like your above example.

btw, good to see ya back Xandit :)
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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Going from 3 to 2 players there are seperate rules.

First off, heads up the SB get the button. The rule is that between the two players left, one of them can not be the big blind 2 times in a row. If he was the BB and the one that gets knocked out would make him the BB again, he automatically gets to be the SB and gets to be the button. IF it works that the BB moves to the other player then it works out fine. Hope this makes sense.

I can do full table examples of the moving button and the dead button if you would like. I run live tournaments all the time and know both styles well.

To answer your example. The button should move to player A and the SB and player B would be the BB. But the rules I stated shows that player B cannot be the BB twice in a row so, player B will be the small blind and the get the button.
 
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dj11

dj11

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Chuck, that was the most perfect reply I have ever seen here....... kudo's
 
dj11

dj11

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Chuck, that was the most perfect reply I have ever seen here....... kudo's
 
Xandit

Xandit

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btw, good to see ya back Xandit :)
thanks Chuck, good to be back, been lurking:D

titans4ever,

Thank you for your reply, I kind of figured that you have to take the "lesser of 2 evils". and missing the deal is less evil than having to post the BB twice in a row.
 
rob5775

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Chuck, that was funny as hell.:D

And no, I won't post that twice.
 
A

Alfoldem

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more players

titans4ever

any chance you could elaborate with how this works when there are more players?

say players 1 -5
player 1 button
2 - SB -
3 - BB then 4 & 5

everyone is all in but only the BB, player 3 goes out.
player 2 now has the button but what happens with player 4's BB?
 
aliengenius

aliengenius

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titans4ever

any chance you could elaborate with how this works when there are more players?

say players 1 -5
player 1 button
2 - SB -
3 - BB then 4 & 5

everyone is all in but only the BB, player 3 goes out.
player 2 now has the button but what happens with player 4's BB?

Player four would get the bb, as he normally would have. Player two gets the button, as he normally would have. The player who should have been in the sb is gone, so there is not sb this round (called a "dead" sb).

On the following hand the button is moved to the missing player's chair. It is now a "dead button". Player four now posts the sb (he was bb last hand), and player five is the bb.

Keys to remember here to make it easy:

1. There can NEVER not be a big blind (although often there will be no sb).

2. No one can skip ANY blinds, small or big. Notice in the above example that we have to have a dead button round after player three is eliminated, otherwise player four would get to skip the sb.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

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Learn the dead button movements. Most, if not all, tournaments use this format now. Here are some examples, hope they make sense. This is how I run my league. Sorry for all the dashes but the stupid software messes it all up if I just used spaces.

d=dealer
sb= small blind
bb = big blind


Under the gun busts out
players 1____2____3____4____5____6
______d____sb___bb

player 4 busts out. Button moves like normal.

players 1____2____3___empty seat___5____6
___________d____sb_____(out)______bb

nothing really different.

Big Blind Busts out

players 1____2____3____4____5____6
______d____sb___bb

Now say player 3, who was the bb, busts out. The next two hands will be altered.

players 1____2____empty seat____4____5____6
___________d_______sb________ bb
there is no sb since he busted out last hand. The next hand is where the term dead button comes into play.

players 1____2____empty seat____4____5____6
_____________________d________sb___bb

The dealer button will be put where player 3 was sitting and this is why it is called "dead button." Player 3 is no longer playing at the table but still acts as dealer to keep the blinds straight. Player 2 will deal again for the "dead" missing person if you are doing a home game or self dealing since player 3 is out. Next hand would be normal.

players 1____2____3____4____5____6
_____________________d____sb___bb

Small Blind Busts out

players 1____2____3____4____5____6
______d____sb___bb

player 2 busts out in sb. Next hand will be a dead button situation

players 1__empty seat____3____4____5____6
_____________d________sb____bb

Now the button moves to where player 2 was sitting and there is now a dead button. The next hand can proceed as normal.

players 1__empty seat____3____4____5____6
_______________________d____sb____bb

Hope that makes sense. Not sure how else to explain it so you can see what happens. Another good way to do it is take a set of cards and go through how i explained it in a mock set up. Like said before, everyone must pay a sb and bb each time around. That is the key.
 
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A

Alfoldem

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yeah that makes sense
it came up recently at a home tourney and as no one was sure so it was voted on. The hand went from 4 to 2 players and with the button moving one guy posted the BB twice in a row - as the blinds doubled!

Least it'll be right in future
 
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