Analyzing for a Beginner

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shagnscoob

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Oh my god. I just sat at a loose table for an hour without getting a hand remotely playable even for a loose game. After about an hour...


Old Ollif: posts small blind $0.02
pembroke529: posts big blind $0.05
viniard: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sh4gnscoob [Qs Js]
bklink2006: folds
angeltorres2: folds
Landshark815: calls $0.05
viniard: checks
DRAGON_WEED: calls $0.05
stephens3226: folds
gimblerdeux: calls $0.05
sh4gnscoob: raises $0.05 to $0.10
Old Ollif: folds
pembroke529: calls $0.05
Landshark815: calls $0.05
viniard: calls $0.05
DRAGON_WEED: calls $0.05
gimblerdeux: calls $0.05
*** FLOP *** [4s As Ah]
pembroke529: checks
Landshark815: checks
viniard: bets $0.05
DRAGON_WEED: raises $0.05 to $0.10
gimblerdeux: folds
sh4gnscoob: calls $0.10
pembroke529: folds
Landshark815: folds
viniard: raises $0.05 to $0.15
DRAGON_WEED: raises $0.05 to $0.20
Betting is capped
sh4gnscoob: calls $0.10
viniard: calls $0.05
*** TURN *** [4s As Ah] [3s]
viniard: bets $0.10
DRAGON_WEED: raises $0.10 to $0.20
sh4gnscoob: calls $0.20
viniard: raises $0.10 to $0.30
DRAGON_WEED: raises $0.10 to $0.40
Betting is capped
sh4gnscoob: calls $0.20
viniard: calls $0.10
*** RIVER *** [4s As Ah 3s] [Kh]
viniard: bets $0.05 and is all-in
DRAGON_WEED: calls $0.05
sh4gnscoob: calls $0.05
*** SHOW DOWN ***
viniard: shows [7s 6s] (a flush, Ace high)
DRAGON_WEED: shows [Ac 3h] (a full house, Aces full of Threes)
viniard is sitting out
sh4gnscoob: mucks hand
DRAGON_WEED collected $2.47 from pot


It hurts bad. I feel that on one hand I did the right thing by being patient and playing a big hand in a big pot. I had a draw to the 2nd highest flush getting 6 to 1, and then calling was giving me 10 to 1. My odds were basically amazing to hit my draw, my EV (I suspect) was very high. Then of course every time I hit a big hole hand the board is lays 3 to a flush/straight every time.

Tonight was a ridiculous cooler, or I got stupid today. Poker is tough :D
 
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shagnscoob

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This thread has been really useful for me as a beginning player, to say the least. Thanks for all the input so far. I THINK tentatively that I'm starting to be a winning player in .05/.1 limit hold em. I've read through SSHE, some parts twice and more, as well as actually studied the concepts and I'm starting to see very consistent winnings over the same hand periods where I was losing before.

Last night after that upset I posted above I went on to end up $2 or $3 up from when I started, and tonight I've made another similar jump despite losing early on.

My bankroll started at $50, went to $51 for one day, then steadily dropped down to I think $35 at it's lowest (without any gain on any day since it started dropping). But in the past 3 days I've brought it back up to $41 over the span of maybe 4 or 5 hundred hands.

Obviously it's hard to say it's not dumb luck, but I think I'm getting the hang of this :cool:
 
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shagnscoob

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So... Now that I've read most of SSHE 4 times through, should I look into getting another book to keep my progress going or should I keep thinking about getting more hands in with SSHE?
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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I don't think it's a bad idea to get more hands in before hitting up another book. Focus on the decisions the way Dorkus Malorkus suggests above.

Down the road, consider getting Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games by Nick "Stoxtrader" Grudzien and Geoff "Zobags" Herzog. Excellent read, but requires that you're used to - and comfortable with - playing limit hold 'em already.
 
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shagnscoob

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What limit will I start wanting to be acquainted with HEPFAP?

And as a sidenote-- I've been playing a lot NLHE freerolls, and that's turning into a lot of fun... Hm...
 
F Paulsson

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It's not so much a matter of stakes as your ability to understand what you're reading. And to understand it, you need to have processed and deeply understood a lot of the previous concepts. Just sticking to SSHE and reading it and re-reading it and playing a lot will get you pretty far. Once you feel like you really own everything in that book, you can get Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games.

I don't recommend HEPFAP anymore. I used to, but there are simply better books to buy these days. WiTHG being one.
 
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shagnscoob

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I lost $2.75 yesterday, facing some pretty rough beats. I'm up over $3 today after a couple beats and then a ridiculous heater.


How do you guys manage how much money you lose in a day? Do you have a certain amount that you can play with and if you lose that much then it's probably time to quit, or do you keep playing hoping your steady head and solid play will bring it back?
 
c9h13no3

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I just play for a set period of time. Usually 8PM when I get home from work til 11. I might play later if the game is particularly good, but setting a time limit is how control my play.
 
pokertime911

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For begininers just concentrate on your own hand and less on your oppents. That will come with experience so until then concentrate on your own game.
 
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shagnscoob

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Play tighter after the flop. Only play hands that you have essentially won or have a very good chance of winning after the flop.
 
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shagnscoob

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As in everything there is both.


Here's a question-- If I get pokerstove and go through my HHs and form ranges for villains and then calculate EVs, will I start to get an intuitive feel for EVs?


I feel like I pretty much answered that one for myself :cool:
 
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shagnscoob

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I'm reading SSHE again. This book is holding together extremely well compared to the Jones book. Considering how often this book is open I'm actually VERY srprised its still together.

On my next list of things to be doing --> The list of things to do when observing and getting an intuitive feel for EVs using pokerstove and my hand histories. These are things that very good players do without thinking, and right now I have to REMIND myself to THINK about it and then THINK about it before it even starts to happen. I know people don't calculate EV in their head, but they still have a good idea of what's going on. Second is I'm going to start analyzing sessions more often instead of just hands, including other peoples sessions. Analyzing individual hands will only show me one situation at a time, but if I sit down and review a whole session, patterns in my play (or whoever's play) become FAR more apparent.
 
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what's less EV-- check a flop with 2 to a flush to avoid giving odds to a draw, or putting money in to bet and giving them good odds?
 
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shagnscoob

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Even after reading SSHE what seems like a million times, I still feel like I should go back and read every possible strategy article on this site.

I think somewhere else I read that "Betting might give them good odds to call (say 6:1), but checking gives them INFINITELY better odds (6:0)"


So I guess it depends what you hold. Because if they only have 20% pot equity in a pot of 8 people/bets they would always be correct to call, but YOU might have the rest of the equity because of your sweet 2 pair/set, so it's obviously correct for you to bet, and for them to call, but if you only have a weak top pair (say T) then your equity is a lot less because any JQKA will kill you too.


Interesting.

So in these situations, you BOTH have +EV. I was forgetting to consider that if they had +EV by getting correct odds, YOU could still have +EV too, because it's your 5 villains that are making mistakes.

Thanks Fpau :cool:
 
RickH2005

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River Hits

People will NEVER stop hitting the river!Poker is, afterall, not only a game of skill, which comes in time, but one of LUCK! Some people were lucky along the Mississippi, and some weren't!:(
 
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shagnscoob

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Soo....

Just an update...

c9 convinced me to play a micro SnG. With his help I placed 3rd in an 18 man 1.75 winning 5.70. I played another and won 1st winning 10.70.


So I rule at SnGs and so does c9. Mostly him, I played one without him and only got 6th.


My bankroll is back in action baby!
 
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shagnscoob

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I lost liek 4 SnG's after that. I lost one earlier today, and I hit money 2 times in a row just now. This is addicting.
 
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shagnscoob

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I played 2 after that and broke completely even now.

Now I'm 3 tabling limit and making BANK. Multitabling seems a lot easier than single tabling because I can only focus on the most pertinent details of the hand (position, pot size, limpers).
 
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Very interesting thread.

From reading your first posts and how you've absorbed FP's wisdom which has had a great impact on your skill has got to be an inspiration to all of the new players. Just a few posts back you were a bit afraid of trying multitabling and now you're suceeding!

Whle playing 1 table helps you get completely involved with every single move made in the game, multi-tabling forces one to only play better quality hands and not mess around when you're in a hand. Next thing ya know we'll be reading about you 16 tabling!

Congrat's on your achievements Shag! Just remember that as with life, Poker is a game where learning is a life long persuit. (and FP is one hell of a good teacher!)
 
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haha well that's exactly why I think I'm doing better on multiple tables. If you read my sessions it was obvious I had a problem laying hands down when they were clearly beat. Now I get AA like every 5 minutes so when the board comes up 678 suited it's easy to fold.

Basically it forces me to make quicker more efficient decisions instead of subconsciously just wanting to play or thinking I can make a move.


PS thanks for the complement, i think it's great that there's such a supportive board.
 
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Oh god but I still call down with 2 pair and see better 2 pairs and runner runner straights hahaha
 
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shagnscoob

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Alright so I went out and bought a book on SnG's by Collin Moshman after c9 piqued my interest in them. Unfortunately I quickly realized that after ONLY playing LHE for so long I really have no fundamentals in NLHE.

Which book is best to start there? I was thinking HoH but that's even tournament play specific.... Is there something that just discusses the theories of NLHE?
 
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shagnscoob

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I'm whimsical.

I finished Moshman's book with a study guide, and bought Theory of Poker. Will spend a long time grinding micro limits until I've really got a solid background there.

On another note, my success at multitabling makes me think that all SSHE taught me was to be a real nit post flop....
 
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