When The Dealer Screws Up

[Stu_Ungar]

I understand the sentiment but two comments.

First of all..I agree with OZ (I am a dealer as well), you should point out a major error if you see one.

Secondly...especially if this is late in the tourny... the elimination of a player vs a shorter player doubling up most definitely affects you.

I do agree that players should help out.

Its just that my experience in pretty much all aspects of life (life in the UK) is that there are some complete nutters out there and getting involved or doing the right thing causes problems a high enough percentage of the time for my 'default setting' to be to stay out of things.

Its a terrible attitude to have, but I have come to this conclusion after years of doing the right / moral thing and seeing it completely blow up in my face.

If I started to write down the incidents I have witnessed or been involved in, I think there is enough material for a book.

I haven't always thought this way!!!

 

[Grossberger]

Jack Daniels- There was no more action as they were in a allin situation before the river.

However if the dealer DID indeed start to shuffle the cards for the next hand then its a mute point. Also dealers if you notice when they are done dealing will remove the burn card and place it on top of the remaining cards (or they should) and then they kill the losing hands and place them on top of the burn card, this is to insure that if a problem is found they can get the players cards back and still have the deck in its normal order.

now I had a similar situation happen to me at Mountaineer I was playing 1-2 NL and I had Aces and the board was A 3 K 9 4 the pot was at around $35 and the other player bet $40 I called and flipped my Trips he looked at his cards looked at the board and said nice hand and turned his cards face up and said I missed my straight dealer mucked all the cards awarded me the pot and placed those cards in the shuffle machine, then another player said wait you had 2 5 right and a few others said yea then you did have the straight. Now I did not see his cards but the players at the other end said he did indeed have 2 5. So they called over a floor person we told him what happened and they said that they would go back and look at the security tape but the other player said to me that if we just split it he would do that once we determined what was in the pot he said just give me $55 and call it even so I did.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Jack Daniels- There was no more action as they were in a allin situation before the river.

You can't stop reading after two sentences, you need to read the whole rule: "If there was no betting on a round because a player was all-in, the error should be corrected if discovered before the pot has been awarded."

 

[jamesdenson]

if your awarded a pot you dont have to give it up may be considered unethicle but its yours

 

[OzExorcist]

Also dealers if you notice when they are done dealing will remove the burn card and place it on top of the remaining cards (or they should) and then they kill the losing hands and place them on top of the burn card, this is to insure that if a problem is found they can get the players cards back and still have the deck in its normal order.

now I had a similar situation happen to me at Mountaineer I was playing 1-2 NL and I had Aces and the board was A 3 K 9 4 the pot was at around $35 and the other player bet $40 I called and flipped my Trips he looked at his cards looked at the board and said nice hand and turned his cards face up and said I missed my straight dealer mucked all the cards awarded me the pot and placed those cards in the shuffle machine, then another player said wait you had 2 5 right and a few others said yea then you did have the straight. Now I did not see his cards but the players at the other end said he did indeed have 2 5. So they called over a floor person we told him what happened and they said that they would go back and look at the security tape but the other player said to me that if we just split it he would do that once we determined what was in the pot he said just give me $55 and call it even so I did.

Your first point is something I've never come across. Once a hand is mucked it's mucked and I've never been told I need to keep them in any kind of order that would allow the players to have their cards back in the event of a dispute.

You keep the burn cards separate (typically with the pot) until the end of the hand to verify that they are indeed all there, but once the hand's over you muck the lot into one pile and shuffle the next hand - there's no order or anything to it. Plus the amount of time between when you bring the deck together and when you start shuffling the next hand is under a second, so I'm really not sure what benefit it'd have anyway. Be interested to hear where that one came from.

And on the second point, that's just weird. He turned his cards up, you didn't look at them, and then chose to believe it when someone else said he had a straight? No offence, but if I had to pick the most likely scenario there I'd say he had 4-2 or something, the other player misread his exposed hand and then your villain decided to go along with it when the comment was made to see if he could get any money back. Or the other players were his friends. Either way, I'd say you got rolled there.

Anyone who's hanging onto 5-2, gets to the river on that board and then bets knows whether they've got a straight or not.

 

[spACEadventurer]

I personally would give him 10 bucks back maybe. Once he's mucked his hand, he has no rights to claim that he has won it afterwards, even if everyone saw it. You're not obligated in any way or form to give him any money back. If you chose to, great, but his cards were dead once he threw them away.

 

[Grossberger]

Your first point is something I've never come across. Once a hand is mucked it's mucked and I've never been told I need to keep them in any kind of order that would allow the players to have their cards back in the event of a dispute.

You keep the burn cards separate (typically with the pot) until the end of the hand to verify that they are indeed all there, but once the hand's over you muck the lot into one pile and shuffle the next hand - there's no order or anything to it. Plus the amount of time between when you bring the deck together and when you start shuffling the next hand is under a second, so I'm really not sure what benefit it'd have anyway. Be interested to hear where that one came from.

And on the second point, that's just weird. He turned his cards up, you didn't look at them, and then chose to believe it when someone else said he had a straight? No offence, but if I had to pick the most likely scenario there I'd say he had 4-2 or something, the other player misread his exposed hand and then your villain decided to go along with it when the comment was made to see if he could get any money back. Or the other players were his friends. Either way, I'd say you got rolled there.

Anyone who's hanging onto 5-2, gets to the river on that board and then bets knows whether they've got a straight or not.

it was not only 2 players even the dealer remembers him having 2-5 and they had told me that since he did indeed flip his cards up he should have been awarded the pot the dealer had made a mistake , so what was going to happen they were going to have to stop the table and goto the video and see what happened and this they said could take 1/2 hour or so and if he did indeed would have to give him everything so 4 or 5 people saw he had the straight and I figured if he settles for half thats fine by me.

As for the dealer and the cards mucking them in order they do this at mountaineer they stack the mucked hands in order and all hands must be mucked except the winning hand before the pot can be rewarded. So if say dealer mucks a players card that had thrown them face up and he would have won then they can go to the top 2 cards on the muck pile and see he did indeed win and the dealer made an error.

 

[beefcake413]

That's the one thing I hate about our local home games. People that are not involved in the hand calling out the possabilities on the board. And sometimes the people involved havn't noticed that possability. Really torks me off, especially when I am in the hand.

That I will agree. you're not supposed to talk about the hand while it's going on, ESPECIALLY if you're not even involved. Definitely a no-no and definitely should be dealt with.