what levels in poker does "bad" poker start to deteriorate?

[mjdavinci]

What some people fail to take in to account is that yes there is a lot of bad plays out there as well as bad players. It comes from what I feel is the biggest problem is people think they are better players than they really are. Or from coming home sitting down with a 12 pack and getting insight from the poker gods instantly learning the way to ultimate riches is playing 7-2 suited no matter what because it was the same suit. If you have watch any TV coverage you will see all the big name pro's making bad plays from time to time. So what it comes down to, at lower stakes you will always have people making the real bad plays because it is only pennies to them and they need some entertainment. Well you are taking the game serious and trying to make something out it

 

[spunka]

22k in cash games actually..

So what you're saying is that the variance isn't more if more people play in a hand? How does that one work?

Evidently your big hand is going to bust much more often than it should if there are more people in the hand...riiiight?...Thats a guess for someone without variance knowledge as you say. Any dummy can work that one out, or not as it seems!

So in actual fact, what you're saying is that your win rate over a course of say for example one million hands that the variance will equal out if in a full ring game 9 people play the hand for a million hands rather than say, 2/3 players playing in every hand for 1 million hands? As for a very inexperienced player I say your wrong, it doesn't take much maths to work that the more people involved in a hand means more variance lol...

If I am wrong then please feel free to explain how and why and make me look an idiot, I don't mind so long as I learn from it.

I was only saying the FX who posted his stats that my Aces had lost a lot. Wasn't a whine either and I might not have the experience yourself has at the tables, however if your saying the variance is the same regardless of how many are in a hand then I have to disagree purely based on percentages and the more amount of hands involved means the better hands stand less chance of winning.

The variance is not about the hands you win or lose but about the money you win or lose, and it's right that you will lose more HANDS in a multiway pot but on the other side when you win in a multiway pot you will win more MONEY, so the variance will be evened out that.

 

[BigJamo]

Thanks for such a great post.I have been wondering about this myself for a while now, and you have brought it up for me, TY. And Id also like to say that the responces everyone posted, was perfect, it answered my Question as well.Well done everyone and to Cardschat for their site.

 

[WVHillbilly]

22k in cash games actually..

So what you're saying is that the variance isn't more if more people play in a hand? How does that one work?

Evidently your big hand is going to bust much more often than it should if there are more people in the hand...riiiight?...Thats a guess for someone without variance knowledge as you say. Any dummy can work that one out, or not as it seems!

So in actual fact, what you're saying is that your win rate over a course of say for example one million hands that the variance will equal out if in a full ring game 9 people play the hand for a million hands rather than say, 2/3 players playing in every hand for 1 million hands? As for a very inexperienced player I say your wrong, it doesn't take much maths to work that the more people involved in a hand means more variance lol...

If I am wrong then please feel free to explain how and why and make me look an idiot, I don't mind so long as I learn from it.

I was only saying the FX who posted his stats that my Aces had lost a lot. Wasn't a whine either and I might not have the experience yourself has at the tables, however if your saying the variance is the same regardless of how many are in a hand then I have to disagree purely based on percentages and the more amount of hands involved means the better hands stand less chance of winning.

The only thing that more players means is more money. Let's look at some EV calcs to prove it.

Extreme example:

You have AA in a 6-max 10nl game. Everyone has exactly $10 and you are in the BB. Everyone in front of you goes all-in. Let's give them all top 10% hands. When you call you have about 50.5% equity (it's a coin-flip oh no coin-flips are bad right?) in the pot.

Our EV is: $25.35

Now same setup except only 4 people shove/call. We now have 64% equity (oh that's better than 50% right?).

Our EV is: $22 (guess it's not better after all)

Same setup except this time it's folded to the SB who shoves and shows you A2o. You have about 94% equity (this has to be AWESOME!!!! right?).

Our EV is: $18.20! Wtf?

How does this crazy math thing make winning the pot less often more profitable??? Oh yeah there is more money in the pot and your AA is getting way more than an equal share of it.

 

[kmixer]

Variance in Micro Stakes.....yikes

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-wins-46/three-hours-plo8-tourney-186710/