Unethical to show the bluff?

[S3mper]

The answer is no. It is not unethical.

You are doing it in attempts to gain an edge. It is not unethical to try to gain an edge as long as we are not cheating. Is it unethical to not tell some one about their tell that you have on them? Even if it's giving us a huge +EV edge against this player? No, of course not. So why would showing a bluff something that is less EV then a physical tell be unethical? It's not!

So go on and continue showing or not showing bluffs if you believe you are gaining a statistical edge.

As you described showing bluffs can get us called by a wider range of hands when we have made hands.

As for it makes it harder for us to bluff - We should be aware of what our image is at the table and adjust our game appropriately in order to take advantage of our game style/ game plan.

Also we should adjust our game to the table as well, so we should never be going to any one game and just bluffing or just showing our bluffs we should observe and make our decisions based on our observations.

 

[rock0001]

yes its a very unethical thing to do. period.

 

[IntenseHeat]

yes its a very unethical thing to do. period.

I'm sorry. I'm going to need a little explanation here.

Could you expound?

 

[yonosemanana]

I was at the cardschat freeroll today at FF, and I was showing bluffs and loving it.

 

[Zorba]

yes its a very unethical thing to do. period.

Oh how wrong you are, it is poker, ethics have no place in poker, it is you Vs the villains, use what you can when you can.


Do you think it is ethical if someone calls your shove with AA and they win holding 23os ?

It's poker, deal with it.

.

 

[Bob23bk]

That's ok, we don't have to think the same. As I say, poker it's a game of skill, luck and strategy, we all have our ways to make it .

You said it would be very predictable if we all thought the same, so I had to disagree with you because it was the unexpected answer. I do actually agree with you, sorry my joke sucked

 

[akyurukov]

I dont like to show my hand at all,but in some cases i prefer to show exactly the bluff because this may make my opponent steaming or tilted or angry...etc..
and if im pretty sure he will start to feel uncomfortable i will show and take advantage of his/er mistakes afterwards.

 

[Kenzie 96]

yes its a very unethical thing to do. period.

Standard move, used or not by each player as they see fit. The question to be asked; is it EV+ or EV-?

 

[rock0001]

Standard move, used or not by each player as they see fit. The question to be asked; is it EV+ or EV-?

not its not + ev because you are giving information to other players about your hand and the rest of the table will take note of how you play and it will be harder for you to keep making bluffs. having a tight image at the table is the best for you because you can use that image to make bluffs or 3 bet light when you have position, slowrolling and shoving bluffs are 2 of the most unethical yet legal things to do in poker, thats my opinion and if you think otherwise thats fine but i completely disagree with doing those things.

 

[rock0001]

Oh how wrong you are, it is poker, ethics have no place in poker, it is you Vs the villains, use what you can when you can.


Do you think it is ethical if someone calls your shove with AA and they win holding 23os ?

It's poker, deal with it.

.

i dont think its unethical to call an all in with 23 off. why would i think that? its just an awful move from a donk players, he is not doing that on purpose to tilt me and by calling with 23 off i will be 80% 20% ahead so i might as well thank him for his bad call and if i lose i will have to deal with it.

 

[Bob23bk]

not its not + ev because you are giving information to other players

This is where you are missing the trick... It can become EV+ if you feed the other players incorrect information! IE: Bluff once and show. Next time you bet heavy they will have no idea you're holding AA

If you are typically loose, it would be more profitable to show your strong cards so they will overestimate your cards.

 

[titomurcia1214]

I usually show one card when i bluff, so do not label them donk, taht way you will not pay any hand when you go allin

 

[Xmaster]

I don't see anything unethical in showing the bluff..but in general I don't like showing my cards, doesn't matter if i had the nuts or made a bluff..

 

[yonosemanana]

not its not + ev because you are giving information to other players about your hand and the rest of the table will take note of how you play and it will be harder for you to keep making bluffs. having a tight image at the table is the best for you because you can use that image to make bluffs or 3 bet light when you have position, slowrolling and shoving bluffs are 2 of the most unethical yet legal things to do in poker, thats my opinion and if you think otherwise thats fine but i completely disagree with doing those things.

I could say that the complete opposite applies by playing a Lag style and being profitable. People start calling with a wider range and they can pay you off max value when you have the nuts.

 

[IntenseHeat]

I don't know, rock. I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Of course we pretty much all agree that slow rolling is bad poker etiquette. However, I'm not sure that showing a bluff falls into the same category. You make a good argument for it being unwise, but I'm not so sure about unethical.

We all want to know what the other guy was holding. If we're smart, we're trying to figure it out during the hand. Once the hand is over, we want to know if we were right. If there was a button that would let us see what everyone in the hand was holding whether or not the hand went to showdown, I'd bet 99% of players would click it after every hand. Honestly, how many times have you sat there hoping to see one player call another's big river bet. Most players want to see a call in that situation. Not necessarily because they think one player is bluffing and want to see him busted. Sometimes that is the case. Most of the time, though, it doesn't really matter to them which player wins or loses the hand. They just want to see the cards. They want to know if this guy is raising light pre-flop with the intention of trying to take it down with a bluff. Is he turning an Ace high hand into a semi-bluff or just taking advantage of his opponents passive play? Or does he actually have it? They hope for a call because it's usually the only way they are going to find out, unless, of course, this guy decides to show the bluff after his opponent folds.

Maybe it just upsets you personally to know that someone got you to fold the best hand. Maybe it puts you on tilt. Maybe your answer to the question is more emotional than logical. Maybe. Just maybe. Maybe I'm in a hand where I flop middle pair. But by the river I'm looking at three over cards, a possible straight and an all-in from my opponent. I might tell myself that calling here isn't a smart play, that even a bunch of donk hands get there on that board. I might tell myself that I can find a better spot than this. The last thing I tell myself before I fold my hand is might be that I f---ing know that this guy is bluffing. But am I right? I want to know. If this guys wants to turn his cards over for free and show me a bluff, show me that I was right, give me confidence in my read, then that is his mistake. It may not be wise. But unethical? I don't think so. I mean it's not personal. It's poker. He can show whatever he wants. He can show you made hands, busted draws, bluffs. There is nothing unethical about. In fact, in a cash game, it's considered good for the game because it generates action in later hands.

 

[rock0001]

I don't know, rock. I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Of course we pretty much all agree that slow rolling is bad poker etiquette. However, I'm not sure that showing a bluff falls into the same category. You make a good argument for it being unwise, but I'm not so sure about unethical.

We all want to know what the other guy was holding. If we're smart, we're trying to figure it out during the hand. Once the hand is over, we want to know if we were right. If there was a button that would let us see what everyone in the hand was holding whether or not the hand went to showdown, I'd bet 99% of players would click it after every hand. Honestly, how many times have you sat there hoping to see one player call another's big river bet. Most players want to see a call in that situation. Not necessarily because they think one player is bluffing and want to see him busted. Sometimes that is the case. Most of the time, though, it doesn't really matter to them which player wins or loses the hand. They just want to see the cards. They want to know if this guy is raising light pre-flop with the intention of trying to take it down with a bluff. Is he turning an Ace high hand into a semi-bluff or just taking advantage of his opponents passive play? Or does he actually have it? They hope for a call because it's usually the only way they are going to find out, unless, of course, this guy decides to show the bluff after his opponent folds.

Maybe it just upsets you personally to know that someone got you to fold the best hand. Maybe it puts you on tilt. Maybe your answer to the question is more emotional than logical. Maybe. Just maybe. Maybe I'm in a hand where I flop middle pair. But by the river I'm looking at three over cards, a possible straight and an all-in from my opponent. I might tell myself that calling here isn't a smart play, that even a bunch of donk hands get there on that board. I might tell myself that I can find a better spot than this. The last thing I tell myself before I fold my hand is might be that I f---ing know that this guy is bluffing. But am I right? I want to know. If this guys wants to turn his cards over for free and show me a bluff, show me that I was right, give me confidence in my read, then that is his mistake. It may not be wise. But unethical? I don't think so. I mean it's not personal. It's poker. He can show whatever he wants. He can show you made hands, busted draws, bluffs. There is nothing unethical about. In fact, in a cash game, it's considered good for the game because it generates action in later hands.

Even though i disagree with you regarding your comment that showing your bluff isnt unethical i think everyone has the right to show the bluff or slowrolling because these are LEGAL actions and no matter how unethical these actions are for me if any player beat me without cheating i will totally deal with the fact that someone slowrolls or show me the bluff. thats part of the game I guess...

 

[yonosemanana]

Even though i disagree with you regarding your comment that showing your bluff isnt unethical i think everyone has the right to show the bluff or slowrolling because these are LEGAL actions and no matter how unethical these actions are for me if any player beat me without cheating i will totally deal with the fact that someone slowrolls or show me the bluff. thats part of the game I guess...

So i'm guessing you never ask to show the bluff or show the cards when folding yours?... Would you make actions of showing the bluff illegal and change the rules of the game?

Some players play the 7-2 game to induce more action into to the game. Are you against this type of game in poker?

 

[Zorba]

This is where you are missing the trick... It can become EV+ if you feed the other players incorrect information! IE: Bluff once and show. Next time you bet heavy they will have no idea you're holding AA

If you are typically loose, it would be more profitable to show your strong cards so they will overestimate your cards.

Ding, Ding, Ding we have a winner

I could say that the complete opposite applies by playing a Lag style and being profitable. People start calling with a wider range and they can pay you off max value when you have the nuts.

Woo Hoo we have two winners.


.

 

[rock0001]

So i'm guessing you never ask to show the bluff or show the cards when folding yours?... Would you make actions of showing the bluff illegal and change the rules of the game?

Some players play the 7-2 game to induce more action into to the game. Are you against this type of game in poker?

im fine with the 72 game as soon as every player on the table agree with it . personally i dont like it but i wouldnt mind playing poker with that rule in cash games sometimes.

and yes i would like to ban showing your bluff or any hand before the showdown in poker. if you already won the hand you dont have to show it, and doing these just to tilt other players i mean come on, thats just a show off move, also i will take more advantage for seeing how you bluff me than you for showing your bluff and ¨tilt¨ me.

 

[CAMurray]

I don't feel it to be unethical to show a bluff, though I never do it. I do like to get caught bluffing though on occasion in order to build that perception equity.

 

[BobGrayling]

On a related note, it always amazes me when people call you a "bluffer" when you obviously had a legit draw... AND were getting the right price. I figure if they don't understand the difference, that's a future source of income in the long run.

 

[Bob23bk]

I don't feel it to be unethical to show a bluff, though I never do it. I do like to get caught bluffing though on occasion in order to build that perception equity.

I'd like to hear more on this 'perception equity'

 

[timfbmx]

Poker is about making money. In my opinion there are certain situation where it can be profitable in the long run to show a bluff. For example if you're playing live poker with a rich guy that has a giant ego and really hates getting bluffed. Show one to him just to get him riled up a bit. Then 30 hands later when you raise him big again this time you have it and boom take his money

 

[w8888]

There are definitely ways you could use it as strategy, but think is more of a showboating kind of thing (at least in lower-mid level games). I think "unethical" is too strong to describe it.

 

[martina pinto]

I respect the decision of each one .. if someone bluffs and shows it we know that the next one may be doing the same or maybe it is the way they think that they are going to confuse us. Generally the liar thinks to think that everyone is lying so we can take advantage of them, who are going to think that we lie to him ... with letters they are going to pay us and that is the hour of revenge.