Trying to talk myself out of this!!

[Chevren]

So a few of my friends want to play in a live MTT today, originally I was excited and thought it was a good idea. I've only played ring games live at any B&M casinos, really my live tourney play is limited to house game sit n goes and local bar tourneys that pay out gift certificates...

I thought it would be a decent learning experience and maybe some fun but after checking their website and calling the poker room for some details on the tourney I'm less enthusiastic. Here's my problems

A.) $45.00 buy-in + $15.00 service fee
a 33% rake seems a bit excessive to me

B.) Tournament players playing in a live game for 2 hours prior to tournament start will be eligible for $1000 bonus tournament chips.
I guess I could go a bit early and grind out for a few hours but this really wasn't part of my plan and seems to put me at a disadvantage if I don't go a few hours early and get the extra chips.

C.) Starting blinds of 25/50 with a starting stack of 1500 assuming I don't hit the live tables before the game. Blinds increase every 20 minutes until they reach 300/600 then it slows to every 30 minutes. One $20.00 Re-buy allowed first 3 rounds for $1000 tournament chips! No add-ons
With a starting M of 20 and blinds increasing very quickly this sounds more like a crapshoot then a poker tournament and why is my first $45.00 dollars worth so much less then the $20.00 rebuy.

I guess for the most part that's it, what do you guys think would you enter for anything more then entertainment value and maybe a side bet on who lasts the longest? I don't see it being a very profitable trip without a lot of luck and an early card rush...

 

[SavagePenguin]

It's a crap shoot.

I occasionally play in a $25 game with a $6 door fee.
1,000 starting stack with 10/20 blinds that go to 20/40, 30/60 before the break at the hour mark. You can pretty much fold your way to the break, but you'll only have $400 in chips left when you return to the 50/100 blinds.

Even without rebuys the game is pretty wild.

With your structure, you pretty much have to rebuy or get lucky early on.

If it sounds like a fun experience do it. But do not play this 33% rake game (which is less because 100% of the rebuys will go to the prize pool) if you're doing it exclusively to make a profit.

 

[dj11]

I live in L.A. and researched all the local casino tourneys.

Results tell me that online tourneys are a much MUCH better deal. However, I have yet to see that big boobed avatar flinch........

Live rake is by necessity high. They have a large overhead and live employees to pay.

 

[Ranger390]

The noon and evening tournaments at my local casino are just like the format that you laid out, except there are no re-buys. The $15.00 juice does sound excessive, but it's pretty normal, at least outside Vegas and Atlantic City where more casinos means more competition. Most likely, $10 goes to the house and $5 to the dealers. After all, dealers are not receiving tips during a tournament and most of their income is based on tips. My local a casino has an option to buy more chips...usually about 1/4 or 1/3 more chips for an extra $5 which also goes to the dealers.

 

[white_lytning]

You will find that most small stakes MTTs live are of a similar structure. Its hard to find a good MTT for less than a $500 buy in. To be honest 20 minute levels and eventually 30 minute levels sounds pretty good for a live tourney at only $60.

The 2 hour thing does put you at a disadvantage. Can you buy the add on right away? What some of them do is offer the 1000 chip for a little extra to help tip the dealers. Don't look at this as an option, you have to take it. Just add the price of that chip to the buy in.

Cheap live tournys like this one are mostly crap shoots live, and you just kind of have to accept that. Unless your willing to spend a little more upfront your probly not gonna find one with much better of a format. Online has an advantage because they dont' have to pay dealers or floor personel and they can run so many more games. Live rakes in MTTs are always pretty bad.

 

[LarkMarlow]

Chevren--

My vote is that you should do the tourney, if only because you've never done one before! I really enjoy live MTTs and have a better than decent cash record.

Before I address the points you made, I have a few questions. What is the max number of players? Unless the room is gigantic there usually is a cap because they want to keep the cash games going. Also, what is the pay structure? Does it change depending on the number of entrants?

A.) That service does sound a tad high. The riverboats I play usually have a $5.00+$5.00 fee--5 for the house; 5 for the dealers.

B.) As a rule I always sit down at a cash game a couple of hours before a tourney. Generally, people playing at the tables get first priority on registering which is cool if it looks like there's going to be a huge crowd wanting to do the tourney. Nothing worse than showing up to register and being turned away. You can usually ask the floor how fast the tourneys have been filling up. The best part is that a lot of the people sitting down are tourney-only players just passing the time and not playing attentively so you have a good shot at winning your entry fee. The extra 1000 chips would be icing on the cake and maybe preclude your having to rebuy.

C.) Rebuy tournies are cool because the pot is sweetened and also some players play wilder than usual because they have that option. The real play begins after the rebuy period is over so playing very tight before that is in your favor.

Side bets about who lasts the longest is always fun too. Go for it and let us all know how you do.

 

[Jarod1231]

You have to keep in mind... when dealers are dealing a tournament instead of a cash game they are making less per hour... this is why the rake is so high

 

[nevadanick]

Really depends on what $60-80 means to YOU... more (or less) if you play the 2 hour ring pre-MTT.

Yes, good opp for a live MTT experience, but certainly shouldn't be your last chance.

Being a regular live MTT player in Nevada I would NEVER join this one unless there was a very special reason... a famous player bounty, only live game when friends are visiting, SOME kind of special event to justify it.

33% fee is way too high, imo. The extra chips to the 2-hr pre-MTT ring players is a HUGE turn-off... especially if you plan on playing without the 2-hr 'bonus' chips.

Follow your instincts. You said in your title that you are trying to talk yourself out of playing .... so you must already have a neg view of the event. Don't play when you start out with a neg attitude. It's a recipe for disaster.

GL whatever you decide.

 

[LeanAndMean]

Entertainment value? to me the rntertainment is winning money and this is stacked against you. If you can't play the two hours for the free chips, don't play. The ones who do also can buy the extra and the add on, so you cannot catch up.

 

[LarkMarlow]

So here I am sitting in suspense. Chev, did you decide to play or not to play? If you did play, how did you do? If you didn't, what was the decisive factor in your choice?

 

[OzExorcist]

FWIW, this is pretty standard for a low-stakes live MTT - rake is high and structures are horrible. Skilled players should still come out ahead in the long run (particularly if you're good with ICM and push/fold decisions) and the standard of play is often pretty bad. But there will definitely be places where your edge is better.

Personally, I'd go along but skip the tournament. Instead, wait for the tournament donkeys to start busting out then get a seat at the cash game tables with them. Because that's the real purpose of the low-stakes MTT - to get the punters in the door then bust them and get them into a cash game as soon as possible. As long as they're in the MTT the casino isn't making any more money off them