Stop minraising

[JimboJim]

Thats pretty much saying (with a better example) what i was saying in another thread about the min-raise. Now the button limp I dont agree with if you have a decent hand. A high PP might be good because an isolated Big Blind might pair the board and bet but if you have AQ AJ, A10 or such you might be able to get then to call a 3-4x BB raise with a lower hand.

 

[Bombjack]

The reason they say button limping is OK is because with a strong post-flop hand, you don't really want the blinds to fold pre-flop. Typically the blinds are a very small proportion of the pot size (as opposed to Limit where they are usually a significant percentage), and you're getting the chance to play a pot against these players from position. If you're a better player than them, this will be +EV pretty much regardless of the cards. The big money mistakes are made after the flop, and raising just allows the blinds to play perfectly and avoid making the big post-flop mistakes.

 

[alan1983]

Actually i think min raising preflop from early position has a lot of certain favorable situations.

But its when theres a lot of limpers, and you min raise, that i dont get. Everyone will call anyway.

As for postflop it has its uses too.

 

[F Paulsson]

But its when theres a lot of limpers, and you min raise, that i dont get. Everyone will call anyway.

In a tournament, this is bad. In a cash game, it doesn't have to be.

 

[alan1983]

yeah havent played much cash games if any. Would say having suited connectors be one of those cases? Thats one case where id imagine min raising in cash game. Or low pocket pair...

 

[F Paulsson]

Often suited connectors and pocket pairs, yes. The point of the raise isn't to drive anyone out, it's to make it easier - twice as easy for only the cost of the big blind - for you to actually stack someone off in the case where you hit a monster (straight, flush or set). Of course, this isn't something that you should only do sometimes with these hands, because any "always" in NL is going to get you in trouble pretty soon.

The short of it is just that you're raising the stakes for this particular hand, by one notch. Or you're forcing everyone in the hand to play with relative stacks half as big. Choose your perspective.

 

[blankoblanco]

Erick Lindgren says he likes to use preflop minraises once in a while. It's a cheap way to gain control of the hand, and, if used infrequently, it can really throw your opponent off as to what you have.

 

[Bombjack]

I've actually started to see tons of min-re-raises pre-flop, which are confusing to play against. Sometimes it's with AA where they're raising for value but not wanting to price you out. Other times they have drawing hands like QJs and maybe want to draw cheaply, gain some fold equity if they bet, build the pot for if they hit, and allowing you to alert them to a big pair if you 4-bet it.

 

[doodydota]

Shoot me I'm a newbie.

In a tournament, this is bad. In a cash game, it doesn't have to be.

I've started playing poker with little respect for the minraise, because as explained in the first post, it does not achieve any of the stated goals of a standard raise.

However, under certain circumstances there might be some advantages to minraising.

I've experimented with it at 6 max cash games against multitabling TAGs. I'd minraise now anytime I would have normally just limped.

1)
Having multitabling TAGs at my table I often steal their blinds at little cost, since the multitabling TAGs just autofold crappy starting hands. This will make up easily for those times I'd have to fold the minraise to a re-raise.

2)
It does mess up their HUD stats, since I will have maniacal pre-flop raise pecentage. This might help setting up a lose-maniacal image.

3)
It will losen the play up. People will get annoyed by it and start looking for an opportunity to 'punish' me.


What do you think? Is this fishy?

 

[Xife]

In deepstack cash games I have minraised preflop with low pocket pairs following a bunch of limpers.. I do this playing the pocket pairs only for set value, and if they hit chances are someone will take a stab at the pot seeing as it's twice as big. I've seen a lot of donkish players call an all in with top pair just becasue the pot was a decent size from the min raise...

Forgive me if this has been stated already as I've only skimmed over the posts

 

[F Paulsson]

I agree with both doodydota (why am I reading that as "Toyota?") and Xife. Minraising can be profitable in situations like those. My post was more aimed at what Xife is mentioning: As a weapon to effectively make it twice as easy to stack someone off when you flop a monster, although Doody's points are very valid for online play.

It's important to remember that in no-limit, the worst thing that can happen to you is being predictable though, so don't "always" min-raise the field with small pocket pairs and never otherwise. But as a balancing play, it isn't bad.

 

[Debi]

I agree with both doodydota (why am I reading that as "Toyota?") and Xife. Minraising can be profitable in situations like those. My post was more aimed at what Xife is mentioning: As a weapon to effectively make it twice as easy to stack someone off when you flop a monster, although Doody's points are very valid for online play.

It's important to remember that in no-limit, the worst thing that can happen to you is being predictable though, so don't "always" min-raise the field with small pocket pairs and never otherwise. But as a balancing play, it isn't bad.

Dorkus and Tenbob - can you agree with any of this?

 

[Legex]

but whats if you have flopped the nuts in a multi pot. you want to keep some players in the pot and making more money at the end if they finale get their card and think you are just bluffing. online players think in that way