C
CaptainKout
Rock Star
Silver Level
2 min 12 seconds(the rest is funny too)
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ae728ce5d/beat-kids-at-the-horse-races-from-wondershowzenfan
2 min 12 seconds(the rest is funny too)
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4ae728ce5d/beat-kids-at-the-horse-races-from-wondershowzenfan
ovitoo
Legend
Bronze Level
The guy said "that would involve learning a new language" (in English). Obv its a foreign language in some parts but I was talking to him.
Edit: Sorry that was you lol
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Good news! Jamie has agreed to write an article for us. She is going to divide it into 2 sections - one for filing as a pro gambler and one for filing as an amateur.
Hope to have it posted by this weekend - should be some good helpful stuff for us!
Thanks for making this thread ovitoo - it gave me the idea to ask her to do this.
Hope to have it posted by this weekend - should be some good helpful stuff for us!
Thanks for making this thread ovitoo - it gave me the idea to ask her to do this.
LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
Oh how wonderful--please give her our thanks!
ovitoo
Legend
Bronze Level
That's awesome Dakota...what a result. Can't wait for this info. Thank you and your friend.
WEC
Legend
Silver Level
Will be a very nice piece for CC and helpful in what is an extremely tricky situation for any US Player, pro filer or just regular.
Anyone who makes substantial income from poker (or hits a big tourny) should also consult a CPA with gambling/Poker experience (not just a normal CPA). Cause the US just screws gamblers big time
hackmeplz
Sleep Faster
Silver Level
From what I understand it's just what you make most of your income at. For example if you have a job making 60k/yr and make 5k from poker they'll have a hard time buying that you're a pro poker player. However if you made 50k from poker with the same 60k/yr job it gets a lot blurrier as you could conceivably treat either one as your "job".
Also only the positives are being discussed here of filing as a pro. Certainly if you spend money on coaching/training sites/books/poker-related travel/etc. that's a positive, but the biggest negative I know of is the self-employment tax, which essentially stems from the fact that you don't have an employer matching your 7.5% I believe it is social security contribution. If poker is just a hobby you don't have to pay that extra 7.5% but as soon as you file as a pro you do. I'm not sure how it works if you have poker as your main source of income but also have some part-time work where an employer pays you. Hopefully the article being written/posted will address that, but just make sure you don't file as a pro to save your $100 you spent on a coach and the $30/month you spend on a training site just to end up having to pay an extra 2k in taxes due to the self-employment tax.
Also only the positives are being discussed here of filing as a pro. Certainly if you spend money on coaching/training sites/books/poker-related travel/etc. that's a positive, but the biggest negative I know of is the self-employment tax, which essentially stems from the fact that you don't have an employer matching your 7.5% I believe it is social security contribution. If poker is just a hobby you don't have to pay that extra 7.5% but as soon as you file as a pro you do. I'm not sure how it works if you have poker as your main source of income but also have some part-time work where an employer pays you. Hopefully the article being written/posted will address that, but just make sure you don't file as a pro to save your $100 you spent on a coach and the $30/month you spend on a training site just to end up having to pay an extra 2k in taxes due to the self-employment tax.
C
Chemist
Legend
Silver Level
Government double standards.
You can only write off expenses if you are professional,
But you will still be taxed if you are not professional.
UK Government isn't any better though, professionals can't even offset some professional expenses against tax but the politicians actually get paid those expenses by the taxpayers.
Like London Borough MPs claiming for second properties in the city, while professionals from hundreds of miles away have to pay for the same with their personal after tax money even when its sole purpose is for working in the location. And of course the most ridiculous moat cleaning expense.
Double standards, you gotta hate them.
You can only write off expenses if you are professional,
But you will still be taxed if you are not professional.
UK Government isn't any better though, professionals can't even offset some professional expenses against tax but the politicians actually get paid those expenses by the taxpayers.
Like London Borough MPs claiming for second properties in the city, while professionals from hundreds of miles away have to pay for the same with their personal after tax money even when its sole purpose is for working in the location. And of course the most ridiculous moat cleaning expense.
Double standards, you gotta hate them.
ovitoo
Legend
Bronze Level
While I think it is obvious that you must be a profressional in order for a coach to be a "business expense". I think that the gray area is defining what a professional is, as viewed by the government. As far the poker world is concerned (or maybe just my opinion) a professional play is backed by a sponser or in some cases just a consistent HIGH stakes player. As far the govt is concerned though, I think the term "professional" is simply defined by your profession. So if you're main source of income is poker than I think you would fall in that category. So a guy with no job that grinds 10nl for 10hrs a day would most likely fit the govt's criteria for professional. Or someone like me who works part-time (just to minimize the effect buy-ins have on my br) and plays 10-hr sessions daily should apply. BUT, a great point that is brought up, by claiming something like a coach as a "business expense" you're also registering yourself as a pro and are obligated to pay taxes on any/all wins (regardless of how much you lost before any game). I kno this is required of all wins over a certain amount regardless. But if anyone says that they would walk out of a 1-2 home game up 800$ and then send in a piece for the IRS, I would have to call bs.
ovitoo
Legend
Bronze Level
No worries. Take your time. It's fun to see the different opinions of everyone. Then you get to come in and drop the bomb lol.
Also saw your thread selling action for the upcoming events in AC. Unfortunately I was not a member at the time of sale. Ill have to get in there next time. But yea great job this year from what it sounds like. GOOD LUCK IN AC!
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Thanks! Will have another one posted when I get back from that one.
JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
If you want to be a poker pro, all you need to do is put it on your tax form as your profession, and keep all the proper records.
Nobody can tell you what you do for a living. Even if your a 20 year looser, it still applies.
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Nobody can tell you what you do for a living. Even if your a 20 year looser, it still applies.
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C
Chemist
Legend
Silver Level
I resemble that remark
B
Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Ummmm...no. At least I don't think so. If you can't show any winnings from poker, let alone consistant winnings then how are you gonna tell the IRS that you support yourself? If you aren't using poker to support yourself, you're not a poker pro. Sorry.
JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
If you own a consulting business that looses money every year, how you gonna prove you run a consulting service?
The short answer is. The gobment doesn't care what you do for a living. Even if it looses money. All they care about is their share when you do make money.
Nobody can tell you what you do for a living. No matter how good or bad.
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Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level
Hmmmm....Ok.....Maybe. but I seem to remember reading somewhere a long time ago that this was pretty close to the way it works for declaring yourself a poker professional....
Really looking forward to the input from Dax's friend on this matter....
Really looking forward to the input from Dax's friend on this matter....
WEC
Legend
Silver Level
You must do MORE than simply list Professional Poker Player on the IRS Form for it to actually be accepted. You have to meet a number of criteria and the burden of proof for doing so is on the filer. The IRS seems to challenge people's professional gambler status frequently.
The good news is The Department of Labor does officially recognize Poker as a Profession (Professional Poker Player) Therefore, Professional Poker Player is established as a legitimate defined and codified vocation by local, state and federal jurisdictions.
Last I saw, Professional Poker Player was given a vocation code (Standard Occupational Classification Code) of #27-2099 (Entertainers and Performers, Sports and Related Workers, All Other). It should be noted that Professional Poker Player is not a Professional Gambler for tax filing or in any other similarity to gambling.
If you do file as a Professional Poker Player you will also have to pay the 'employment taxes' (Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes) and file quarterly for estimated tax payments.
If anyone has interest in filing as a professional, I am sure your accountant will show you the taxes for the 1st year you intend to do so on a Professional v Non-Professional basis. I know several Pros that went with 'Non-Pro' status because the Pro Tax rate ended up being much higher than Non-Pro even with deductions.
The following is a short definition and an article which is a good read dealing with taxes and poker.
Understanding Poker, Taxes, and Staking
In this article, we offer an overview of what poker players, at a minimum, need to know about their tax liabilities.
http://www.onlinepokerfaq.com/guide/tax-professional.html
It is possible to file as a professional poker player. As a professional, you can claim your net win as business income using Schedule C. This avoids all the costly problems caused by adding gross wins to your income and then deducting losses later. Also, a professional poker player may be able to classify as a business expense certain costs incurred as part of his professional activity. For offline players this is typically travel expenses; an online player could make a reasonable argument that reliable high-speed internet access and money transfer fees are costs of doing business.
The catch is that the IRS holds professional gamblers to a very high standard. If you have other sources of substantial income, or if you haven't posted wins for the last several years running, there is a good chance that the IRS will reject your claim of being a professional. Even if they accept your status, they may deny your expenses or consider your records to be deficient.
Another negative to filing as a professional is that you must pay 15% self-employment tax on your profits. This might be reduced if you are also employed in a regular job, but then your case for being a professional is weaker.
A good reference on filing your taxes as a professional gambler is the recent book Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler by Marissa Chien and Jean Scott.
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JusSumguy
Chipmonger
Silver Level
B
Big_Rudy
Legend
Silver Level