SHOULD THIS BE IMPORTANT?

D

Dayne G.

Guest
Joined
May 30, 2008
Total posts
189
When I first started playing seriously, I struggled with this question:

SHOULD IT BE IMPORTANT TO BE LIKED AT THE TABLE- TO BE THOUGHT OF AS A "FRIEND?"

My style doesn't promote making friendships while in the heat of battle, and I used to really play tug-o-war w/ this concept.

Everyone enjoys being liked, but I now believe it can often get in the way of your bottom line.

One way "needing to be liked" may hurt our overall game is in the way we bet our hands...
Ex: not making a specific play, because it may "upset a friend." I used to feel bad when extracting every last bit of value out of a hand, when against a friend. Sometimes, I would actually soft-play. :confused:

Most importantly, though, "needing" friends at the table may make us think in terms of what they would think if we thought X, and made X play. In other words, taking us OUT OF OUR MIND, and OUR thought process... and putting us in THEIR way of thinking.

Needing to be liked, IMO, has no place at the poker table. Talk a lot, ask about wife and kids, girlfriends, etc AWAY from table. No one has to like you...

BUT THEY MUST FEAR YOU... THEY MUST NOT HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU'RE FEELING/THINKING...

That's all. Watcha think?

Stay focused,
Dayne
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

CardsChat Regular
Joined
May 5, 2008
Total posts
7,583
Awards
34
People will like you if you dump money to them, you can play to win and be a good sport. Everyone on cpu is just a bot anyway.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,583
Awards
1
I don't think it matters much - what really matters is knowing how to play your table image.

There are pros with all sorts of table images. Look at Phil Hellmuth and Daniel Negranu. One's prickly, one's friendly, and both are very successful.

If you're prickly or unpleasant to people at the table, you've gotta figure that more people will be coming after you - it's human nature: they don't like you, and they want to attack you. So you'll probably be able to value bet someone to death when you have a big hand.

If you're the friendly type, on the other hand, you may be able to run a bluff or two and get people to lay down their hands because they figure you're a friendly guy, you couldn't possibly be bluffing them.

The image itself isn't what matters - it's the way you manage and play it.
 
vanquish

vanquish

Legend
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Total posts
12,000
i like to be semi-intimidating, kinda the "boss" at the table. sorta like hachem.
 
un-diluted

un-diluted

Visionary
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Total posts
556
i agree with vanquish. Being respected and having your raises be respected ESPECIALLY in MTT can be priceless.

Being liked? You're playing poker. nobody likes anybody they've never met b4
 
D

Dayne G.

Guest
Joined
May 30, 2008
Total posts
189
I don't think it matters much - what really matters is knowing how to play your table image.

There are pros with all sorts of table images. Look at Phil Hellmuth and Daniel Negranu. One's prickly, one's friendly, and both are very successful.

If you're prickly or unpleasant to people at the table, you've gotta figure that more people will be coming after you - it's human nature: they don't like you, and they want to attack you. So you'll probably be able to value bet someone to death when you have a big hand.

If you're the friendly type, on the other hand, you may be able to run a bluff or two and get people to lay down their hands because they figure you're a friendly guy, you couldn't possibly be bluffing them.

The image itself isn't what matters - it's the way you manage and play it.

VERY VERY TRUE! Great points!

But... image is only part of it. I'm also talking about ACTUALLY WANTING PLAYERS TO LIKE YOU, AS A HUMAN (while at the able)-- not only as an image play.

I struggled w/ playing my best, while trying to be "liked" at the same time.

1. Figuring out what image you want to portray, and using it to it's fullest
-VS-
2. Not worrying about players disliking you during that process
 
zachvac

zachvac

Legend
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
7,832
Assuming we're talking about live, obviously we shouldn't be a complete asshole, that's a good way to not be invited back or if it's a casino kicked out (not sure on this one). Also, there's no reason not to be friendly, talk, etc. Hell it gives me something to do when folding almost all my hands. So I could be at a table with 8 other friends, we could all be talking, having a good time, but we all know that poker-wise there are no friends. When we're at the table every decision I make is intended to do my best to get the money on the table over to my stack. And the same is true of everyone else. I've been playing poker for a few years, and never have any bad feelings carried over to off the table. It's like a neighborhood football game. Maybe there's a close play or what someone thinks is a dirty move and a big argument results. But once things cool off we're all friends.
 
I

IrishRope

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Total posts
18
I kind of think what ever suits you best. Try playing live and be a total ***** to everyone, then next session be the loveable guy, see what works for you. Phil, Daniel, Mike the Mouth do what works for them.

I personally prefer to play nice win or loose, however I refuse to play soft against friends or family, if they are going to gamble I will take their last nickel and not think twice about it.
 
my3sons

my3sons

Guest
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Total posts
32
When it comes to carda it's war spare no one an who cares what they think of you or you of them really
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
When I first started playing seriously, I struggled with this question:

SHOULD IT BE IMPORTANT TO BE LIKED AT THE TABLE- TO BE THOUGHT OF AS A "FRIEND?"

My style doesn't promote making friendships while in the heat of battle, and I used to really play tug-o-war w/ this concept.

Everyone enjoys being liked, but I now believe it can often get in the way of your bottom line.

One way "needing to be liked" may hurt our overall game is in the way we bet our hands...
Ex: not making a specific play, because it may "upset a friend." I used to feel bad when extracting every last bit of value out of a hand, when against a friend. Sometimes, I would actually soft-play. :confused:

Most importantly, though, "needing" friends at the table may make us think in terms of what they would think if we thought X, and made X play. In other words, taking us OUT OF OUR MIND, and OUR thought process... and putting us in THEIR way of thinking.

Needing to be liked, IMO, has no place at the poker table. Talk a lot, ask about wife and kids, girlfriends, etc AWAY from table. No one has to like you...

BUT THEY MUST FEAR YOU... THEY MUST NOT HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU'RE FEELING/THINKING...

That's all. Watcha think?

Stay focused,
Dayne
Your wrong here, you want the fish to like you, you want them to stick around because of you.
They may not like getting beat by you, they will buy a couple more times just because he may like a friendly game or what they think is a friendly game;) .
You want them to think you're friends at the table, I'm not saying that you should pay attention to the chat window all the time while at the table, just take the opportune times, those boring seconds between hands to type something friendly.
Do you really feel bad when you take money from your friends in a home game?, If no, then why would you feel bad taking money from someone you chat with at the poker site.

Some of us do it here, we may all be friends here but we all know when we're at the table together we are there to make money, not that we put friendships aside but we don't let our emotions get in the way of a game, that way we play the best game to our individual abilities as we can.
 
Last edited:
MrMuckets

MrMuckets

Legend
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Total posts
2,379
Awards
2
BUT THEY MUST FEAR YOU...


You're wrong here too. They should and will respect you if you play selectively aggressive. If you're a wild man you will have no respect. :):)
 
PokerVic

PokerVic

Visionary
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Total posts
822
Mike Caro (who I'm reading more and more of lately) seems to think that by fostering a friendly image, you can loosen the table up, and make it less serious. Fish don't mind losing so much if they're having fun, and if it looks like everyone at the table is gambling as much as they are. In reality, you'd be playing smart, tight poker.

He even goes so far as to say he avoids certain moves (check-raising, showing a bluff, etc) because it changes the complexion of the table, and may drive away the worst players. So, it costs you money in the long run. But, that doesn't mean you have to play soft.
 
JimmyBrizzy

JimmyBrizzy

Visionary
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Total posts
916
Awards
1
Who wants to be feared?

In Tournaments this might make some sense since if other's want to play they have no choice if they end up at your table.

But cash games? What players would want to sit down at a table with an unfriendly person who people fear? They have the option and most people at the 1/2, 2/5 tables don't play because they want to sit down with the "scariest" opponent. They sit down because they want to have fun, and a lot of them are looking to gamble. They'll probably play more pots with you if you are open and inviting in your personality and help keep the game loose and friendly.

Just my two cents.
 
D

Dayne G.

Guest
Joined
May 30, 2008
Total posts
189
BUT THEY MUST FEAR YOU...


You're wrong here too. They should and will respect you if you play selectively aggressive. If you're a wild man you will have no respect. :):)

You're right about FEAR. Definitely too strong a word. RESPECTED is a better word.

I'm not wrong (for me, for my comfort level) about not needing to be liked. I don't necessarily want to be disliked, but having players look at me and say, "He's such a gr8 guy... I'm LIKE giving my $$ to him" doesn't happen w/ my opponents. I'm not advocating being a D*ck, but being overly nice when I compete, hasn't ever worked for me.

There's two ways (both a win-win for me):

They "enjoy" playing w/ me, and give it away...
They "come after me" because I'm quiet (but they think I'm cocky)

Either way is fine, AS LONG AS THEY'RE THINKING MORE ABOUT MY GAME, AND LESS ABOUT THEIR OWN! (and this should be the bigger point)

How the above gets done isn't important to me.

That's what makes this game so awesome... it's all about you! You! You! How YOU get it done will always differ from him, her, and me.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

...
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
2,516
Awards
1
I personally prefer being friendly live (online I don't care). It is not because I have deep desire to be liked it is just more fun to be at civil table. That also doesn't mean that I am not trying to rip your heart and eat it for lunch, I just will do it with a laugh and smile ;)
 
H

hornellfred

Enthusiast
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
86
I will like you if you play the game right, and don't take all day to make a decision. If your one of those idiots that goes in on every hand, I will think your an idiot. Other than that the cards call themselves and play your cards the best you can and we will have an enjoyable game. If your only gambling to win and thats your only motivation you are the one who won't like anybody.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Im not really going to commment too much on this as its quite a deep topic, but if you guys are interested in this then id reconmend

'the psycology of poker by A Schoonmaker'

Easy to read book and consulted with by Sklansky.

But gives you an insite as to why people play and how you treat them / out play them!!! lol
 
P

paumarhas

Visionary
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Total posts
682
play your game.

:( this is easy for me, i have no friends.:D just kidding. i may have gone easy with playing with family, it just depended on the circumstances. but friends no way they're wanting to win as much as me. but i'm not in high stakes games, either, nickle and dime stuff.
just watch the pros play some are friendly, some are real serious, some are jerks. but the real pros, the ones who know they'll bounce back after a fall, are generally good natured, as far as i can see.
if your playing online most of the time chatting is restricted, (during allin calls) and you (I) haven't seen to much chatting going on other than g1; ty; good call; etc. short and brief. ring games i don't play much anymore, once in awhile, but even there, when i use to play a lot, there wasn't much chat.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
I will like you if you play the game right, and don't take all day to make a decision. If your one of those idiots that goes in on every hand, I will think your an idiot. Other than that the cards call themselves and play your cards the best you can and we will have an enjoyable game. If your only gambling to win and thats your only motivation you are the one who won't like anybody.
You're the type of player I love playing against, I take my time making a decision and you get more impatient and before long you start overplaying marginal hands against me because you have become bored and crave action......my point is self evident here, I'm not trying to be rude and I appologize if that's how I come across.
BTW, I do ALWAYS intentionally extend my time only when there are impatient players at the table.:D
 
Makwa

Makwa

Undesirable Predator
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Total posts
6,080
Depends on the game, the site... soft games I am more talkative to keep em loose and happy, hard games more after respect... I agree that stalling people on tilt can be very valuable, and not very nice... essentially I am always mixing it up due to the situation, also my mood.

Like the points Caro makes about not tapping the tank.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

Miss you, Buckster,,,,,
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Total posts
3,129
Awards
1
When I first started playing seriously, I struggled with this question:

SHOULD IT BE IMPORTANT TO BE LIKED AT THE TABLE- TO BE THOUGHT OF AS A "FRIEND?"

Everyone enjoys being liked, but I now believe it can often get in the way of your bottom line.

One way "needing to be liked" may hurt our overall game is in the way we bet our hands...
Ex: not making a specific play, because it may "upset a friend." I used to feel bad when extracting every last bit of value out of a hand, when against a friend. Sometimes, I would actually soft-play. :confused:

Most importantly, though, "needing" friends at the table may make us think in terms of what they would think if we thought X, and made X play. In other words, taking us OUT OF OUR MIND, and OUR thought process... and putting us in THEIR way of thinking.

Needing to be liked, IMO, has no place at the poker table. Talk a lot, ask about wife and kids, girlfriends, etc AWAY from table. No one has to like you...

BUT THEY MUST FEAR YOU... THEY MUST NOT HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU'RE FEELING/THINKING...

That's all. Watcha think?

Stay focused,
Dayne

Ya know what, I never gave it much thought. I like to be liked, sure, but certainly don't need to be at a table. I have real live friends, family who love me - not total strangers. That said, it is my nature to kibbutz around, ENJOY people and extract the most fun out of any situation. Are you really in a freeroll to spend 4 hours to make $5? I could do something not totally objectionable, like bag groceries and make $40 in that time.

But even in a medium stakes game, I think being liked can only help you - unless you change your own way of play. Must admit, I'm reluctant to take out someone I like, especially if they're the only one in that hand w/me. So yes, that affects the way I play. On the flip side, if someone likes you, they may also be reluctant to do the same - if not, no hard feelings - but I can live with myself better. Most people at any table are not overly friendly. But the ones that I have gotten friendly with will find out fast that I'm not joking when it comes to pushing my hand around, and realize that they are not they only one in that hand with me.

As stu_ungar said (if he wasn't kidding), it is a deep topic. Good thread.

P.S. Won't hesitate to do a 180 on the donks & all-inners. They can be your bread & butter, especially when they're pissed at you for mouthing off to them. :laugh: I think it even helps that they know/think you're a women in these situations (also a deep topic). ;)
 
Last edited:
A

acemcnasty

Guest
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Total posts
8
Being liked at a table isn't a huge concern to me, but I don't want players gunning or itching to bust me at every oppurtunity. I prefer to get along with the other players, makes it more enjoyable for me... I tend to try and gain respect in regards to my play at the start, once I feel that's accomplished the stealing may begin.
 
H

hornellfred

Enthusiast
Joined
May 22, 2008
Total posts
86
Well I guess I need to respond to that. What I meant by slow players is the one that times out on every decision. We all need time to make decisions once in a while or maybe the wife is yelling "Is that all you do." I play for fun mostly and before you say that you want to play against me for that, Losing isn't fun. Taking your time will not make me tilt.
 
Top