Pokerstars Shut Down & Full Tilt Poker Shut Down by the FBI

M

megl

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I don't live in the US and I am no expert on US domestic affairs and politics, but I just feel like giving my 2 cents - with the risk of my fellow US cardschatters playing back at me hard :D

As always and everywhere, money rules the world. Not noble ideals of freedom or a better world. Perhaps even more so in the US than anywhere else. Some hollow 'Land of the free' chant on repeat does not change that.

I heard in the news that the US is challenged on the national budgets these days. So here's the true story as I see it:

It was a dark and stormy night.
The national treasury keeper looked into the national treasure chest. A flash of lightning from the thunder outside briefly lit up the vault and revealed the startling truth: The chest was empty.
The treasure keeper, and of course the powers ruling the nation, were in despair as their attempts to fill the empty chest had not been successful. The wealth and success of the nation was seriously threatened. Worse, the rulers felt their power slipping away like dry sand through their fingers. No money, no power, disaster.
They looked around for a last resort. They spotted a prosperous billion dollar industry and realized this industry was operating within their nation, interacting successfully with millions of the nation's citizens, and the national treasury was not getting any cut of the profit. Outrageous.
So they laid a plan.
Since they couldn't directly seize or control an operation based in a foreign nation, and since previous legislative attempts to stop their citizens from using their 'freedom' to engage with these companies and generate turnover for them had failed, they decided to get rid of the velvet gloves and use raw muscle in an attempt to squeeze some gold out of the industry.
They stated by raising as much hell as they could (you've seen how they did it), knowing this would cause significant damage to the industry's earnings, maybe even to it's existence.
This, they thought, would force the representatives of the industry to negotiate in order to bring peace and business back to normal.
And indeed, the plan worked.
In time, the representatives of the industry, being uder significant pressure, agreed with the ruling powers on a settlement that implied that billions of dollars were instantly transferred from the bulging treasuries of the industry, to the empty national chest. The terms of the settlement also ensured that the nation's national treasury would get more than it's fair cut of any future profits made by the Industry. In return, the industry was allowed to operate within the nation again (though on certain restrictive terms - after all, it was the Land of the Free :confused: ).
And thus, peace and happiness was restored, and the citizens were allowed just enough freedom to spend their time and hard earned doe on online poker, should they want to do so.

So stay calm everyone, it will all work out :D
 
P

PokerSunday

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Who wants to play Sunday Million this night??? :)
I will play for one of you.We will use TeamViewer,Skype and Moneybookers.10 percent for me... :cool:
 
N

Neoblast

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Wow this is sure a shock, full tilt won't even work for me...

I'm sure they have done some bad things if this reached seizure point.
 
JOEBOB69

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Wow this is sure a shock, full tilt won't even work for me...

I'm sure they have done some bad things if this reached seizure point.
\read and do some research please,before posting.
 
bestoboth

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I have said it a thousand times in the last 48 hours but I am partially pissed now because of FTPs Take-2 promotion. I had 8 bloody days! I had managed those on a shoestring budget and was doing pretty well then... OF COURSE... I had a bit of a rough day lost a couple bucks. I was, however, PLANNING to deposit so I could just get that last day. I mean, 25 bucks for 4 or so I thought was probably a good trade! SURE WISH I had just gone and done it instead of waiting! NOW I will lose the 20 because while I AM STILL SIGNED ON TO FTP (I haven't turned off my computer since Friday morning) and am apparently ABLE to play the games to get those last 5 points, since I haven't done the update, I HAVE NO BLOODY CASH... and a couple bucks woulda done it... SO talk about ANGRY, YEAH! But... THAT ALL SAID...

Of course, that just is the icing on this bloody cake! AND I know this is not all about ME... really, I DO KNOW THAT - LOL! Cause then I think a little more long term and REALLY start to freak out! Sure, yeah, 25 free bucks woulda been REALLY nice but what if... what if... WHAT IF they take away poker COMPLETELY? *SCREAMS LOUDLY* SURE there are sites accepting US players now... but as it has been asked before... FOR HOW LONG!! THIS IS INSANITY!!!!!!! I don't think this is a question of IF... but, rather, WHEN... *sighs HEAVILY*
 
M

Marginal

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Nick, when those other poker sites accepting US players get closed down, are you going to take responsibility when your cardschat members lose their money? Because this ridiculous advertising campaign for Carbon and the like is not going to end well.
 
JOEBOB69

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Surley every one that has to change sites due to the DOJ should know the huge risk involved.
 
M

Marginal

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I have said it a thousand times in the last 48 hours but I am partially pissed now because of FTPs Take-2 promotion. I had 8 bloody days! I had managed those on a shoestring budget and was doing pretty well then... OF COURSE... I had a bit of a rough day lost a couple bucks. I was, however, PLANNING to deposit so I could just get that last day. I mean, 25 bucks for 4 or so I thought was probably a good trade! SURE WISH I had just gone and done it instead of waiting! NOW I will lose the 20 because while I AM STILL SIGNED ON TO FTP (I haven't turned off my computer since Friday morning) and am apparently ABLE to play the games to get those last 5 points, since I haven't done the update, I HAVE NO BLOODY CASH... and a couple bucks woulda done it... SO talk about ANGRY, YEAH! But... THAT ALL SAID...

Of course, that just is the icing on this bloody cake! AND I know this is not all about ME... really, I DO KNOW THAT - LOL! Cause then I think a little more long term and REALLY start to freak out! Sure, yeah, 25 free bucks woulda been REALLY nice but what if... what if... WHAT IF they take away poker COMPLETELY? *SCREAMS LOUDLY* SURE there are sites accepting US players now... but as it has been asked before... FOR HOW LONG!! THIS IS INSANITY!!!!!!! I don't think this is a question of IF... but, rather, WHEN... *sighs HEAVILY*

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Hey bring this up with the guys who have 50 to 300k in their poker accounts. You think FTP planned on doing this to you for you to miss your take2? You are overacting to the smallest issue at hand.
 
M

Marginal

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Surley every one that has to change sites due to the DOJ should know the huge risk involved.

Yes but this site is not showing them the risk, look at all the headers. Its blatantly misleading.
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Yes but this site is not showing them the risk, look at all the headers. Its blatantly misleading.
You are correct,i have not noticed that before.IMO it should state as of now you can still play there but there are risk,,or something of that affect.
 
M

Marginal

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Hey joe, we never ever agreed on anything before. I like :)
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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We only got to play like ~40-50 hands,due to lack of blockers.So no you don't owe me.And even if you did or vise versa it wouldn't do any good at this point.
 
jaymfc

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No wonder even the major poker companies had problems with their payment processors periodically .... while posting lies to the players about 'why' they were having problems. I can't believe, knowing what we hear now, that the sites were not aware of EXACTLY how the processors were operating.

lmao ;) it's like you have no blame :eek: lies to the players was the funniest crap I've heard in awhile . so you never knew it was illegal to deposit or realized you were cashing out from an illegal payment processor , with a legit sounding name that had no ties to gambling , or that they changed the amount slightly .

LMAO ... every one of us knew what they were doing and were glad they were doing it so we could keep playing . we are lucky if they don't come after us too :eek:
love ya guy but that just sounded so hypocritical I had to post :eek: :p
and for the people who really did have their head up their ass ?? ignorance is not an excuse:p
 
bgomez89

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honestly I think there needs to be a banner or something saying that PS and FT letting people play poker is not really what theyre being indicted for and that it's more about the fraud that they committed
 
aliengenius

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Actually, I think one of the things holding up legalization is the whole taxation issue. In the US, you can deduct gambling losses (from legal gambling ventures) on your taxes. You also receive 1099's (at least at the dog track) for winnings over $600. This balances out as those paying taxes on their winnings are covering those who deduct their losses, and the gambling establishments themselves pay taxes on their cut.

In online poker, if I am an American and I lose $600, I would be able to deduct that on my taxes, reducing the amount I pay the government. The problem is, the fellow who WON my $600 is very likely to be from Belarus or somewhere strange, and cannot be forced to pay American taxes on his winnings. Likewise, while an internationally-based poker room could be required to pay US taxes on the portion of their profits derived from US players (just like any other multi-national corporation), they could not be forced to pay taxes on non-US profits, which would require calculating the amount of each rake, for every hand, for every player in that hand who is a US citizen. Complicated, yes?

This is an issue affecting all online business transactions, but poker seems to be the largest and most potentially profitable (or unprofitable) for the US Treasury. I think they are really hoping to push out the international poker rooms in favor of US-owned ones, so they can get all their taxes neatly tied up.

I wouldn't be surprised to see passage of a bill which classified online poker rooms as being operated on US soil if owned by a US company, which would allow them to require the deduction of US taxes on any withdrawals regardless of the country of origin of the recipient.

Frankly, I don't care how they do the taxes. Just give me back mah Pokah!!

EDIT: In the interest of not fearmongering, let me specify ... give me back mah PokahStahs!

You and only deduct your loses up to the amount of your gains/wins. You can't simply say "I lost x dollars, therefore I am reducing my taxable income by x".

You are required to pay taxes on all gambling/poker income/gains-- it works out to the "net" amount of your wins because you can subtract/deduct your losses. Note however, that the IRS requires you file your wins and loses in different places on your tax forms, you can't just pay taxes on the net.

IF YOU ARE A NET LOSER FOR THE YEAR YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO DEDUCT YOUR LOSSES FROM YOUR TAXES. The government isn't losing money from losing players (most people), and in fact, is only gaining revenue from [net] winning players.

That being said, your point (made elsewhere by others too) that destroying the current sites to make way for US based brick-n-mortar casino based sites is entirely plausible.
 
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elsif

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US Govt breaking a technical rule in stealing pokerstars.com?

When a domain is seized, you would expect the DNS servers to be changed.

pokerstars.eu: udns1.ultradns.net udns2.ultradns.net
pokerstars.com: udns1.ultradns.net udns2.ultradns.net

This is what 'WHOIS' reports for the domain.

A query against the .COM DNS servers (operated by Verisign in the US), reports:
; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> @h.gtld-servers.net NS pokerstars.com
pokerstars.com. 172800 IN NS ns1.cirfu.net.
pokerstars.com. 172800 IN NS ns2.cirfu.net.

Isn't Verisign in direct violation of the law regarding gTLD's as spelled out by ICANN for listing different WHOIS information for the domain than is being published in the DNS?

Shouldn't the owner of the domain now be listed as:
FBI's Cyber Initiative and Resource Fusion Unit

Does anyone else find it weird that the FBI is using Amazon.Com's services to blackhole these domains? Why would Amazon.com open themselves up to boycott?

Contact information for Amazon.com, facilitators of this government takeover, are:
RTechPhone: +1-206-266-4064
RTechEmail: aes-noc@amazon.com
 
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isaac

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anyone else notice they unregistered all of the US players for the CC freeroll?
 
arahel_jazz

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When a domain is seized, you would expect the DNS servers to be changed.

Pokerstars.eu: udns1.ultradns.net udns2.ultradns.net
Pokerstars.com: udns1.ultradns.net udns2.ultradns.net

This is what 'WHOIS' reports for the domain.

A query against the .COM DNS servers (operated by Verisign in the US), reports:
; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> @h.gtld-servers.net NS pokerstars.com
pokerstars.com. 172800 IN NS ns1.cirfu.net.
pokerstars.com. 172800 IN NS ns2.cirfu.net.

Isn't Verisign in direct violation of the law regarding gTLD's as spelled out by ICANN for listing different WHOIS information for the domain than is being published in the DNS?

Shouldn't the owner of the domain now be listed as:
FBI's Cyber Initiative and Resource Fusion Unit

Does anyone else find it weird that the FBI is using Amazon.Com's services to blackhole these domains? Why would Amazon.com open themselves up to boycott?

Contact information for Amazon.com, facilitators of this government takeover, are:
RTechPhone: +1-206-266-4064
RTechEmail: aes-noc@amazon.com

Both SP and I answered this in the other sticky thread. Amazon is just obeying the law, and the FBI was lazy in using them. Think of it as "outsourced police action"...
 
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Hoof Harted

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Ron Paul 2012.
It does not really matter who you vote for.
Look at the disgusting way Bush jr. was elected in 2000, the American people elected Al Gore; only to find out that it did not mean squat! The other crooks we elected to office decided for themselves through "electoral votes" who would be President! Sad times, sad times for sure!
We let ourselves get to this point, only WE can get our butts out of this jam!
Bush hates all poker people!
 
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