Poker etiquette question.

[Shep11111]

Recently on Hustler casino live Tom Dwan took down a 3.1 million dollar pot. The player he was up against had his cards seen by Doug Polk. The hand continues until the river. You can watch in the link.

My issue is with Polk (potentially). Although the table was fine with action continuing with Polk knowing the two cards, but if I’m Polk here, I leave the table. People on YouTube were congratulating Polk on keeping it calm here, and all I can think of is how he should get up and stretch his legs for this one. You can be as calm as you want, but you are still an extra read for my opponent and I would have asked him if he could.

What are your thoughts?

 

[mtl mile end]

What about the extra read players get from you when you stand up and walk away?

 

[Emily Trott]

I agree completely. I have actually asked players to please not show me their hands because something in my face could give them away to those still in the pot.

It reminds me of a story I was told by the woman I lived with for a number of years. She was playing seven card stud, had a royal flush, and was betting heavy. Her husband came up behind her, said something about why was she betting crazy, and picked up her down cards to look at them. Everyone folded when they saw the expression on his face.

 

[Tammy]

Recently on Hustler casino live Tom Dwan took down a 3.1 million dollar pot. The player he was up against had his cards seen by Doug Polk. The hand continues until the river. You can watch in the link.

My issue is with Polk (potentially). Although the table was fine with action continuing with Polk knowing the two cards, but if I’m Polk here, I leave the table. People on YouTube were congratulating Polk on keeping it calm here, and all I can think of is how he should get up and stretch his legs for this one. You can be as calm as you want, but you are still an extra read for my opponent and I would have asked him if he could.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are he did everything he should have by telling the player that he saw his hand, and then folding. It is ultimately up to the player to protect their cards to ensure that no one sees them. Doug could have said nothing and taken advantage of that. He didn't though - he let the player know and folded.

 

[Shep11111]

What about the extra read players get from you when you stand up and walk away?

He doesn’t see all the streets if he leaves after his fold. He gets to ride the highs and lows of a AK bluff hand just like we do at home except he is at the table and in the game.

 

[Shep11111]

He doesn’t see all the streets if he leaves after his fold. He gets to ride the highs and lows of a AK bluff hand just like we do at home except he is at the table and in the game.

Potentially giving Dwan extra info to go by.

 

[jonaselloco]

For me first it is a total error of the player who lost showing the cards to Polk.
It's all information that Dwan picked up.
Another mistake is to enter to have fun at those tables. Dwan is not going to have fun, he is going to win.
I've seen him since the days of the poker stars tables, and he has a tremendous read on the game.
I've seen it in hands against huge players, and I've seen players bluff that you say "he bluffed this player???"
For me Tom Dwan is one of the best I've seen in cash game players in recent times.
He is a serial killer from the table he plays at.
In addition to being a being that it seems that his only sensitivity when it comes to playing is only to win.
He is a phenomenon. I'm glad to have seen him win this huge jackpot.
My regards, brother

 

[takinitSLEAZEE]

Integrity in poker isn't rare but it's sure unappreciated. Thanx Doug. Not just saying that because I play at your club, but that kind of gesture can radiate in a positive light, and that's especially good for this game. Think he'll ever read this? Pfft...
Anyways, the hand and awesome call by Tom was just fkng insane. Thnx for posting it Shep. I've seen it pop up on yt but I keep putting it off.

 

[Pokerpoet2]

I respect Polk for not giving anything away in this hand, It was a brave Call from Dwan with a potential straight on the board and of course any 8 or a bigger pocket pair like Aces or Kings could have won the hand.
This is another reason I hate playing A/K, it looks good especially if they are suited, but in my book it is still an Ace Rag hand, I have folded A/K many times facing a raise because I hate the hand so much.
Wesley played like a rookie here, falling in love with two cards, that he should have checked back on the Turn, better to lose 100K than to lose 1 and a half Million.

 

[Joe]

Recently on Hustler casino live Tom Dwan took down a 3.1 million dollar pot. The player he was up against had his cards seen by Doug Polk. The hand continues until the river. You can watch in the link.

My issue is with Polk (potentially). Although the table was fine with action continuing with Polk knowing the two cards, but if I’m Polk here, I leave the table. People on YouTube were congratulating Polk on keeping it calm here, and all I can think of is how he should get up and stretch his legs for this one. You can be as calm as you want, but you are still an extra read for my opponent and I would have asked him if he could.

What are your thoughts?

Wow! Well that was a pretty historic, exciting and noteworthy hand of poker that's for sure- thanks for posting it!

There's little Polk can do about the situation after Wesley exposes his cards. It wasn't intentional by either player so it's an unfortunate accident. As others have mentioned, Polk does the correct, sportsmanlike and moral thing by declaring he'd seen the cards to the table.

Whenever anyone sees any exposed card, regardless of whether it is an opponent's card, a card from the deck or a burn card- the fact that the card has been seen should be declared to the table and (depending on the circumstances and card) either the card becomes known to all players, is reshuffled into the deck or otherwise.

Why should Polk leave the table when he has done nothing wrong? He is a poker lover and if he left the table he would have missed a historic and incredible hand. He did his best in a difficult situation and even Dwan too states that he intentionally did his best not to even look at Polk during the hand due to knowing that Polk knew.

Coupled with how admirably Wesley took such a significant loss, it's my opinion that everyone in this hand acted and played honourably, with great integrity and represent all the best qualities of good poker and good poker players.

Giving some leeway for a little colourful language of course...

Dirty little potty mouths I'm going to wash their mouths out with soap!

Well, now with that all said and out of the way, I'd like to humble brag a little...

On the river I put Dwan on queens a couple of minutes before the commentator said 'by the way Dwan is talking he has kings'...

Fairly obvious at that stage that ladies were the most likely candidate based on the action etc. so not exactly a difficult read but was pleasing nonetheless when the RFID chips updated and the graphics popped up...

I agree completely. I have actually asked players to please not show me their hands because something in my face could give them away to those still in the pot.

It reminds me of a story I was told by the woman I lived with for a number of years. She was playing seven card stud, had a royal flush, and was betting heavy. Her husband came up behind her, said something about why was she betting crazy, and picked up her down cards to look at them. Everyone folded when they saw the expression on his face.

I'd bet someone was sleeping on the sofa that night!

My thoughts are he did everything he should have by telling the player that he saw his hand, and then folding. It is ultimately up to the player to protect their cards to ensure that no one sees them. Doug could have said nothing and taken advantage of that. He didn't though - he let the player know and folded.

Completely agree!

P.S. When some sunny day yours truly is winning multi-million dollar pots for fun on live streams I'll have a C.C. thread where annually a handful of you get whisked off for a scenic all-inclusive holiday somewhere beautiful & fun! 😎🥳❤️

 

[Shep11111]

I respect Polk for not giving anything away in this hand, It was a brave Call from Dwan with a potential straight on the board and of course any 8 or a bigger pocket pair like Aces or Kings could have won the hand.
This is another reason I hate playing A/K, it looks good especially if they are suited, but in my book it is still an Ace Rag hand, I have folded A/K many times facing a raise because I hate the hand so much.
Wesley played like a rookie here, falling in love with two cards, that he should have checked back on the Turn, better to lose 100K than to lose 1 and a half Million.

But we can’t say conclusively that Dwan didn’t get a read from him. This is what I don’t get. Why congratulate Doug? If it was a hard spot to stay calm he should have left the table, since all hands have the potential to be monsters heads up preflop and he knew the guy had AK.

He wanted to see the hand play out live and I think it’s unethical.

 

[Shep11111]

Just for the record im
Not indicating that Polk leaves the table WITHOUT saying he seen the cards. He should still obviously say he saw them. But after his own fold he should get up and take a pee, coke back and see how the hand went. You can’t do this mid action because it could be seen as a tell to Wesley’s two cards.

 

[Joe]

There's no reason for him to have to leave the table at all. As long as he doesn't verbally disclose anything and does his best to not give any physical tells away or react to the board or action he has done nothing wrong.

Not sure where you are getting this idea from he has to or should leave the table. All he needs to do is declare and remain impassive, which is precisely what he did and I might add rather well in my opinion!

 

[nabmom]

First off, thank you so much for posting that video. What a fascinating hand to watch. If Polk did anything wrong, I think it was to say that he saw Wesley's cards before he looked at his own and folded. In fact, I think he shouldn't have said that he saw his cards at all, during the hand. If anything, I think that was Polk's mistake. But in the given situation, I don't have any problem with him staying. He's a pro and I'm pretty sure he knows how to keep from giving off tells. Plus, not being in the hand himself, it's pretty easy to stay calm. It's not his money.

+1 to what @Joe said above. I agree completely.

 

[Joe]

First off, thank you so much for posting that video. What a fascinating hand to watch. If Polk did anything wrong, I think it was to say that he saw Wesley's cards before he looked at his own and folded. In fact, I think he shouldn't have said that he saw his cards at all, during the hand. If anything, I think that was Polk's mistake. But in the given situation, I don't have any problem with him staying. He's a pro and I'm pretty sure he knows how to keep from giving off tells. Plus, not being in the hand himself, it's pretty easy to stay calm. It's not his money.

+1 to what @Joe said above. I agree completely.

I do understand what you're saying Debbie, but if Polk doesn't declare he has seen Wesley's cards and plays the hand without declaring, then that means he has information the rest of the table doesn't and an unfair advantage.

This is why all exposed cards are supposed to be declared, regardless of how many people see the cards or which/whose cards they are.

I'm fairly sure that there are rules to this effect, it's not just a question of etiquette.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I respect Polk for not giving anything away in this hand, It was a brave Call from Dwan with a potential straight on the board and of course any 8 or a bigger pocket pair like Aces or Kings could have won the hand.
This is another reason I hate playing A/K, it looks good especially if they are suited, but in my book it is still an Ace Rag hand, I have folded A/K many times facing a raise because I hate the hand so much.
Wesley played like a rookie here, falling in love with two cards, that he should have checked back on the Turn, better to lose 100K than to lose 1 and a half Million.

I disagree. Personally I think Dwan came very close to folding there in that spot. I'd say far from playing like a rookie. (imo)

 

[nabmom]

I do understand what you're saying Debbie, but if Polk doesn't declare he has seen Wesley's cards and plays the hand without declaring, then that means he has information the rest of the table doesn't and an unfair advantage.

This is why all exposed cards are supposed to be declared, regardless of how many people see the cards or which/whose cards they are.

I'm fairly sure that there are rules to this effect, it's not just a question of etiquette.

I'd love a reference to if this is in the rules. Exposed cards have to be declared when they are exposed during the deal. This isn't that situation. It's a player who didn't protect his cards. I don't know of any rule that requires one player to declare if he/she has seen another player's cards after the deal.

Additionally, Polk isn't obligated to let the rest of the table know what he saw, and he isn't obligated to get up and leave the table.

 

[Joe]

I'd love a reference to if this is in the rules. Exposed cards have to be declared when they are exposed during the deal. This isn't that situation. It's a player who didn't protect his cards. I don't know of any rule that requires one player to declare if he/she has seen another player's cards after the deal.

Additionally, Polk isn't obligated to let the rest of the table know what he saw, and he isn't obligated to get up and leave the table.

Yeah actually, you're right - players' responsibility to protect their own cards, flashed/exposed cards from the deck/deal are different I believe.

To be honest not 100% sure!