Lipstic Cameras

Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
By now, everyone is familiar with how WPT saved the poker world with the introduction of the lipstic camera in 2003, turning all the world into fans and all the pros into stars. The camera changed televised poker from an activity about as exciting as watching bears hybernate (not my analogy but I wish it was) into a big inside joke that everyone is in on except the players. Good for everyone right? Well maybe, but what it also did was enable anyone with a VCR to take the ultimate notes on another player. Back in the bad ol' days, the only way you could get a read on someone was by the number of hands they played and what they showed down. Now, everyone in the world knows that Gus Hansen will play any two cards from any position, or that Dan Harrington is tighter than a ducks ass. I'm sure, many pro's would be happier if every hand they played wasn't a matter of public record.
Which brings me to my question. (Yes, this is a question). Does anyone know if the players at featured tables at the major events are required to show their cards? If so, what happens if they don't?
 
Poo_Poo

Poo_Poo

Rock Star
funny , i thought about that problem today, With a cam you are getting the best information about that player you can get . its like seeing through his eyes .

maybe thats just the price of beiing a pro but maybe that can also be used for their advantage , since someone who played f.e. very lose in a past tourney could change his game so that his opponends would make mistakes putting him on the previous style .
 
nateofdeath

nateofdeath

Legend
That's a very good question. If I ever make a featured table I'll stack my chips infront of the camera and see what happens. I have seen it on TV when a player doesn't do it right, so they don't know what cards he has. But I don't know what they do if you did it on purpose. It would be hard for me to believe that they'd put that in the rules, but i don't know

And you'd think with the relativly small number of hands they see, it wouldn't be a big enough sampling to totally have someone figured out. Also, you'd think these pro players would be used to people trying to figure out how they play, and good players can probably do it without the lipstick cameras, though it would certainly help the rest of us. Plus sometimes it's good to know that everybody at the table thinks you play a certain way. Every once in awhile Harrington can bluff and get fold out of respect, and when Gus actually has a hand he'll be more likely to get action.

-n
 
XXIII

XXIII

Rock Star
I do not remember when it was but at during one wsop telecast someone did have chips in front of the camera. The booth guys made a comment about it during the telecast and later on when they showed it again the chips were moved.

So I am guessing to be at the table you have to show or its bad TV
 
starfall

starfall

Visionary
Firstly, I think that it's not really too big a worry, since most of the games aren't televised. On programs like the WSOP you've mainly got the final tables of the events being shown. The play at the final tables is a little different to that at other points in a tournament, and these pro players will also know to play cash games differently, too.
As a result, other players referring to the programs featuring their opponents would have a relatively small and unrepresentative sample of hands to go on, which may not benefit their attempts to beat the pro.

Additionally, it's not something that most of us need to worry about happening to us - if you're going to pick a few players to analyse, then you'd pick players like Helmuth, Ivey, Lederer, Duke, etc, so none of us would have to worry about our plays coming under that kind of scrutiny anyway.

What this is missing is that a pro wants to have one table image and play to a contrasting strategy, so if they know that they have a reputation from TV for a certain kind of play, then they can play off that, and you could easily find that the pros don't find it a disadvantage, but an advantage from knowing what their opponents will most likely make of their plays.
 
beardyian

beardyian

Scary Clown
Awards
2
As is also often said they only show the highlights of the games. So you are not seeing the little plays or the small pots inbetween the action pots.

Here in the UK now we have a couple of channels (which i find i watch more than most:cool:) devoted to poker and in the comps they have you see every single hand dealt.

I remember a couple of months ago one table had a game last from 8pm-nearly 2am.

Perfect for note taking perhaps but you still can only play the cards you have :p

On card hiding i think the tv floor manager/producer pass the message on, but as for an outright refusal its probably more hassle for the player than its worth.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
I'm sure Dan Harrington and Doyle Brunson etc have already been compromised by the books they have written, giving numerous examples of how they play hands!
 
XXIII

XXIII

Rock Star
robwhufc said:
I'm sure Dan Harrington and Doyle Brunson etc have already been compromised by the books they have written, giving numerous examples of how they play hands!

After Super System Doyle said he had to change up everything about his game :hello:
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
I remember two things. On the WSOP, one player did whatever he could to block the camera from seeing his hands. The commentators did a segment on it and didn't really say anythign negative about it. Another player drew eyes and lips on his thumb and index finger to make a talking hand and said various things to the camera like "Do you think I should fold? and "I'll think I'll call here" in a strange voice. I tend to enjoy players that do things with the camera. Honestly, I don't think poker players are pressured to show their hands to the camera but I have no way to find out.
 
Jocksrock

Jocksrock

Rock Star
i always thought that televised poker raised publicity and revenue and gave the big players the sports celebrity status that they would not have had otherwise...this must surely be worth the sacrifice of others studying pro players playing tactics...not to mention the fact that there is no way i would stay up till 2 in the morning watchin a tourney game where i only see the end result.
 
jeterkid925

jeterkid925

Guest
I think you you have to show, I do remember seeing the wsop clip, they did say something and he did move the chips.
 
gjshand

gjshand

Rock Star
You do have to allow the camera to see your cards, it is in the rules of entry. If you dont like it you dont have to enter!

I do see your point but its worth the downside to earn the sort of money the pro's earn.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
Ok so the other downside was the announcers who also know what they have and blab it on television. I have even heard quite a few times that Harrington was tighter then a ducks ass. So why is the announcers any diffrent then those of the camera?
 
JAMILE1

JAMILE1

Cardschat Elite
Yes you must show cards to camera inlaw works at casino and checked and says it is a contract with ESPN and all have to adhere to it, it's part of the entry process guess thats the draw for the network.




edit: damn forgot to ask, what if they don't want to? but will check when she calls again.
 
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