U
uarejelly
Rock Star
Silver Level
how is bovada getting away with allowing U.S. players and pokerstars cant?
I still cant understand why online poker is bannd in USA by legislation
starting_at_the_bottom
Legend
Silver Level
Well the responsibility should be with the bank who are taking the huge cash deposit. once the money is in the account it should be considered clean by default. Nothing to do with the poker sites.
D
doomasiggy
Legend
Silver Level
Because the big issue for the US government isn't online gambling, that's part of it but not the biggest part. The biggest issue is the quick, easy, almost untraceable international transfer of money.
dirtyoldog
Legend
Silver Level
ya i dont get it i live in ct were here we have them only on the indian reservations but rhode island was sick of loseing money to us so they turnd there dog track into one.i dont think they have poker tables yet.but since they did that mass wants to put only one in the state and they are charging hundreds of millions just to submit an applicacation if you want a crack at it. oh ya kid exactly how much is a butt load?ive never recieved one and would like to keep it that way :argh:
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arahel_jazz
Unbalanced and Committed
Silver Level
Pokerstars got caught in the first wave on Black Friday.
Bovada's day is coming... they just aren't big enough to go after yet.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
I'm not American, but...
^ this. At its root it's a social / political / philosophical objection to gambling (and the other stuff that comes with gambling).
Again I'm not American, but I believe the answer is "only in Nevada, and even then only very recently".
^ this. At its root it's a social / political / philosophical objection to gambling (and the other stuff that comes with gambling).
Again I'm not American, but I believe the answer is "only in Nevada, and even then only very recently".
Aleksei
Legend
Silver Level
The first bodog site was actually shut down. Bovada, from what I understand it, is tailor-made for UIGEA (which, remember, doesn't make poker actually illegal), so it's pretty safe.
arahel_jazz
Unbalanced and Committed
Silver Level
Since I don't know how Bovada handles cash flow, I guess I can't comment. However, I wonder if they are able to get around UIEGA, why a huge outfit like PS or FT doesn't follow suit. Doesn't smell right to me.
Aleksei
Legend
Silver Level
FT and PS actually operated stateside for five years after the passage of UIGEA. Then in 2011 FTP management decided it was a brilliant idea to steal money from players, the DOJ called bollocks, and FT and PS were banned here.
arahel_jazz
Unbalanced and Committed
Silver Level
Stealing money wasn't the problem. Bribing a bank to fake the transactions was. Still doesn't matter - Bovada is still having to find a way around UIGEA with payment processors. DOJ isn't budging on that line.
FWIW - I'll only play live until this crap gets sorted.
Michael Paler
Legend
Silver Level
I blame....all of us.
For years I've known and believed something, that none who chose to challenge me in a debate on the subject ever win. And it's this: POKER IS NOT GAMBLING.
The reason we lost this great game in the U.S. online is due to us, the poker players, failing over the years to adequately make ourselves heard, that Poker is not gambling. Look, Money laundering was always a weak case to be made, as it would be very impractical and obvious in the large amounts that would be required to make it worthwhile. Morality, however, was the primary reason, only not the "moral" issue itself, oddly enough.
If you watch any good politician, they are simply running out of morality issues that are not a "third rail" of politics; Abortion, drugs, gay marriage, etc; these all have become election/re-election killers, leaving politicians in washington scrambling to find morality issues that can be safely tackled to appease the masses whom they assured (lied to) they were a "morals drivin candidate".
Enter online "gambling", ie, POKER.
And, not only have we as a community miserably failed at explaining how poker is on par with chess and other strategy/mathematically derived games, we continue to allow others to lump us in with games such as craps, roulette, etc. Not helping at all is the utter contempt many high level players on T.V. have for bothering to dress even close to anything resembling someone who is skilled at their trade and not some "degenerate" (in the eyes of those who scorn poker as "gambling" and trust me, they bring out the tapes to make their case).
I mean, really, you are "professional" on worldwide T.V., in a game for millions, yet you cannot wear your "big boy" pants and an (untucked, even) shirt with a collar? But, no, they show up in sweat shorts and faded tee-shirts, allowing prudes to have easy ammo against us. Sure, this is C.E.O. attire in California and Florida, but CA and FA is not the whole nation!
Ask yourself this: Where 1000 people from all across America asked to look at 2 guys, (one dressed in a collar shirt, pants and actual shoes, another in sweatpants and a grungy tee-shirt), and decide which one was most likely to gamble at a game of "chance", which of the two would get more votes? Stereotypes aside, the grunge look will win hands down. I'm not saying that's right, I am saying that is the perception. Just like the lottery. All this time, after they tried to kill online poker, they continue to have all those state lotteries, which I can assure you, are the truest form of gambling ever devised. Only, somehow, buying a lotto ticket is not considered gambling, entering a poker tournament for a fee is. PERCEPTION.
So, next time you hear someone mention the word "gambling" and "poker" in the same sentence, think of what I have said here. And give them a polite, and accurate, correction of their perception of us. When you hear a call for players to look more professional on T.V., don't laugh and say how irrelevant that is, because now you know, it is not.
For years I've known and believed something, that none who chose to challenge me in a debate on the subject ever win. And it's this: POKER IS NOT GAMBLING.
The reason we lost this great game in the U.S. online is due to us, the poker players, failing over the years to adequately make ourselves heard, that Poker is not gambling. Look, Money laundering was always a weak case to be made, as it would be very impractical and obvious in the large amounts that would be required to make it worthwhile. Morality, however, was the primary reason, only not the "moral" issue itself, oddly enough.
If you watch any good politician, they are simply running out of morality issues that are not a "third rail" of politics; Abortion, drugs, gay marriage, etc; these all have become election/re-election killers, leaving politicians in washington scrambling to find morality issues that can be safely tackled to appease the masses whom they assured (lied to) they were a "morals drivin candidate".
Enter online "gambling", ie, POKER.
And, not only have we as a community miserably failed at explaining how poker is on par with chess and other strategy/mathematically derived games, we continue to allow others to lump us in with games such as craps, roulette, etc. Not helping at all is the utter contempt many high level players on T.V. have for bothering to dress even close to anything resembling someone who is skilled at their trade and not some "degenerate" (in the eyes of those who scorn poker as "gambling" and trust me, they bring out the tapes to make their case).
I mean, really, you are "professional" on worldwide T.V., in a game for millions, yet you cannot wear your "big boy" pants and an (untucked, even) shirt with a collar? But, no, they show up in sweat shorts and faded tee-shirts, allowing prudes to have easy ammo against us. Sure, this is C.E.O. attire in California and Florida, but CA and FA is not the whole nation!
Ask yourself this: Where 1000 people from all across America asked to look at 2 guys, (one dressed in a collar shirt, pants and actual shoes, another in sweatpants and a grungy tee-shirt), and decide which one was most likely to gamble at a game of "chance", which of the two would get more votes? Stereotypes aside, the grunge look will win hands down. I'm not saying that's right, I am saying that is the perception. Just like the lottery. All this time, after they tried to kill online poker, they continue to have all those state lotteries, which I can assure you, are the truest form of gambling ever devised. Only, somehow, buying a lotto ticket is not considered gambling, entering a poker tournament for a fee is. PERCEPTION.
So, next time you hear someone mention the word "gambling" and "poker" in the same sentence, think of what I have said here. And give them a polite, and accurate, correction of their perception of us. When you hear a call for players to look more professional on T.V., don't laugh and say how irrelevant that is, because now you know, it is not.
coyotegal
Rock Star
Silver Level
ITs because our GOV gets paid to much to keep it out. The indian casinos dont want online poker to take away their business. I'm willing to bet that certain people in the GOV got paid to allow indian casinos and certain peeps there are getting paid to keep poker away as long as possible. Just one opinion.....