Is "I have to call" a call?

[David_Lill]

Come on, who are you kidding? If he didnt turn over his cards so quick you would of called anyway and lost regardless, there was no way you were folding.

 

[hawtshawt420]

Come on, who are you kidding? If he didnt turn over his cards so quick you would of called anyway and lost regardless, there was no way you were folding.

I don't understand why people are jumping down his throat for this specific hand. We all know he wasn't folding a boat for $30, can we put that aside and look at his question (which has been answered and discussed as well) of "if I say 'I have to call' to myself, is that a call?" Even if we say no he can't travel back in time and save himself the money. He's obviously talking about for a future hand which he may have 2 pair with flushes, straight, etc possible and that's a hand he could actually let go. It's not helping anyone to say "you weren't folding that hand." What does he, or any of the other readers learn from that?
/rant

Normally, if someone says they have to call, he ends up calling. I can see it going either way depending on dealer rulings. Personally if it were me, i'd say you were just thinking your way through. If you said it to me, I'd think to myself "he's calling" but not do anything til you say "Yes I call" or put some chips in.

 

[Big_Rudy]

See, that's the thing Hawt, this could be construed as honest on both party's actions, or it could be considered an angle-shoot by either side. Player A says 'I think I have to call' to induce action without really meaning to call, then says "I fold" once he gets the result he wanted (player B to expose his cards). NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

Or, player B, upon hearing player A debating a call and hearing the word "call" come out of the other player's mouth in any fashion quickly exposes his hand, forcing the action and a response from the dealer/floor.

Interesting situation. I still believe in most casino's you'd be held to the call. As for the honesty/angle-shooting, there's lots of honest players, andd there's lots of angle shooters as well. Pick your poison.

 

[OzExorcist]

Our different view on this seems to be totally about our presupposition about how this would be handled by the floor.

I am convinced there was a call and I am convinced that if the floor is called the fact the villain has turned his cards up has 99% influence on that decision.

I base that on seeing over and over in the rules, if you 'blah blah blah' "causing another player to act behind you" then (and the "then" never turns out well for the person who induced the action).

I could be wrong but that's the basis of my opinion.

Totally understand what you're saying and if you're right about zero influence on a ruling then I would agree.

Players acting behind is only mentioned twice in Roberts Rules that I can find - once to say that if you throw your hand away in a forward motion and it causes another player to act behind you then your hand is dead, and in a slightly more confusing rule about when you do or don't retain the right to act when someone else has acted out of turn.

The only rule that really matters is this one (Roberts Rules Section 3 - General Poker Rules, Betting and Raising):

9. A verbal statement in turn denotes your action, is binding, and takes precedence over a differing physical action.​

The decision begins and ends with what was said. What other players have done afterwards should have no influence.

 

[hawtshawt420]

Right. It could be honest on both, or they both could have been doing some sort of tactic. Like Oz said, I'm not turning over my cards until a chip is in or dealer tells me to or some obvious and if my opponent says "I have to call" I think to myself "He's going to call" since he probably will, but I don't want to act and the decision be "he didn't officially call, yet" and let him fold (we all know he probably wouldn't be in this specific hand)

 

[Carmine]

Yep you called but the other player was sharp to flip his cards over fast...I think he thought there might have been some debate so he made his move. I can see where this situation might provoke some discussion in a home game but in a casino no way....it was a cheap lesson.

 

[nc_royals]

Similar situation here at about the 3:30 minute mark.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

And in this case Clonie was not too swift to announce her hand.
How is this different?
She had 2 pair (second) and MSUfan's villian had top boat (which in all likelyhood was the 2nd nuts after quads).
MSU Fan said "I have to call" - Vamessa said "I THINK I have to call"
I wish Clonie would have gotten a ruling though.
I'm not flipping hand over in Clonie's shoes.

 

[jaxpaboo]

Once again, gotta be quiet especially when mumbling. I've seen more that my fair share of 'I'm all in' jokers when the hand is being dealt. Most of time you aren't all in, but sometimes house will call you on it.
Be silent... less mistakes and you give away MUCH less info to thinking players.

 

[jordanbillie]

Any statement with the word "call" in it can be determined to be a binding call at the floors discretion. Be careful what you say, as you may be forced to make an action you didn't intend on.

 

[recoveryagent]

if i ever find myself in this position i hope my brain tells my mouth to keep quite.our words often get us into things with no recourse. slaming down as he did was a trap unless chips were pushed to call u should have won .imo he slamed u but im calling with any boat\ muttered under my brath or not

 

[eberetta1]

Thanks for letting us know this happened. It let's us learn from others so we do not have to learn from the school of hard knocks.

 

[Shady Vision]

Took your post to twitter and according to Matt Savage your action would be considered a call.http://www.savagetournaments.com/

 

[msufan]

Took your post to twitter and according to Matt Savage your action would be considered a call.

Awesome -- I looked at his tweet as well as yours! Pretty cool that he would answer your tweet. Thanks for doing that!

 

[fugitive67]

He was a smart player, he heard you mention the word " call " and showed right away, I would have as well and would have complained a ton if you said other wise i have seen such big fights in casino's over this.

Lesson here, let the chips do the talking.

yeah this, he was smart, probably has done that before ... house has to rule in his favor since the word call was used ... of course, on the flip side ... how often do we hear pros like Daniel and Phil say the same thing


i guess just stick to i cant fold ... now, be honest, had you truly decided to fold?

 

[msufan]

now, be honest, had you truly decided to fold?

No -- I probably would have made the crying call regardless.